Explosions at the Boston Marathon

file under burning questions

um, did you actually read the article? it's pretty interesting, if depressing.

I still dont understand why they denied a change of venue. The bar is basically set at the Oklahoma City bombing and nothing has come close ever since. The Tsarnayev jury pool included a guy who worked on the damn defendant in the emergency room and the Enron jury pool had one of the defendants goddamn sisters as part of it. I know judges like to front like 'I can find the 12 people in this metro area who fit the bill for this jury and goddamnit I'll find all 12' but this is gonna come up on appeal so hard.

both hailed from the Caucasus, the region that gave rise to the term “Caucasian,”

Krgyzstan is on the wrong side of the Caspian to include any of the Caucasus mountains.

Although neither brother matched the visual prototype of a white American, both hailed from the Caucasus, the region that gave rise to the term “Caucasian,” and both had lived in America for many years.

The article seems to make the point that when Americans called to sit on juries can't make up their minds whether a defendant is white or not, it confuses everyone involved about what rules they are supposed to play by, so that among other things the lawyers and prosecutors can't figure out how to make optimal use of each juror's latent racism. My reaction is that, if everyone is equally confused, then equality before the law will as likely be served as not.

just as we are not equally confused about what brothers are, some people are more confused than others by ideological or instinctive biases which they are unable to parse or acknowedge when assessing guilt

the article invokes the race dyad as an absurd example to illustrate this, and how such unconscious biases are at least as determinative and as important to normative concerns about jury composition as 'do you go to church' type demographic surveys

thinking the jury system could ever deliver an unbiased jury would be a sign that one has never thought much about the jury system

that is not the concern of the authors, their argument is that eg “social dominance orientation” as a trait that can be assessed at jury selection, /predictably/ causes jurors to disfavour socially non-dominant groups and causes inequity before the law, whether caucasians are white is just one wacky example that's used to highlight this

yup

it'd be interesting to see if smart defense attorneys could start selecting for matters such as that, but they are limited by law in how much they can ask of a potential juror and on what terms they can (explicitly) rule out a juror.

their argument is that eg “social dominance orientation” as a trait that can be assessed at jury selection, /predictably/ causes jurors to disfavour socially non-dominant groups

and this is news to you? this is merely social science confirming what everyone already knew already. people are creatures of cultures and cultures have deeply embedded biases. some of these are unconscious, just as we are rarely conscious of our hearts beating.

I would point out that even while this trait is discernible, it is not eradicable via the current rules for jury selection. Nor would a new set of rules ensure anything other than a guaranteed lengthening and complication of the process, creating even greater expenses for both sides, without necessarily securing a better result.

just helping you understand an article you couldn't understand by yourself, no assessment of the legal value of their research was offered beyond that

so kind of you

and this is news to you? this is merely social science confirming what everyone already knew already

is there not a value in confirming something like this through research?

btw i highly doubt that every NYT reader fully understood the implications of the effect of racial/ethnic bias on juries. convincing people of this is potentially one step toward ameliorating the problem, no?

i just don't get why you seem to be so cynical about this, aimless. it's an interesting article, has the potential to open a few folks' eyes.

honestly it seems like you posted a knee-jerk reaction to the headline (not the substance of the article) and are trying to maintain that position. it's an interesting article; it has value in confirming in a fairly objective matter what many of us--but by no means everyone--suspects is the case.

Krgyzstan is on the wrong side of the Caspian to include any of the Caucasus mountains.

They were born into the Chechen diaspora of Kyrgyzstan, fwiw. They are not ethnic Kyrgyz.

It's an interesting article.

their ethnic background and geographical origins are a little complicated as i recall, because they moved around a fair bit as kids--and the two brothers didn't necessarily grow up in precisely the same places-- and their parents are from different places/ethnicities. but that sort of thing is common in the former USSR.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/28/us/dzhokhar-tsarnaevs-lawyers-prepare-to-argue-against-death-penalty.html?referrer=

hmm, death penalty or life in solitary for a 21 year old? go america

he'd have > 18,500 hours of life out of solitary if he lives into his 70s tbf

I'm fine with either.

yup. no biggie, imo.

I live here, I don't want him dead, beyond that, fuck him for life

🎻

death sentence for D.T.

rah

http://www.zz7.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Rito-e-sacrificio-in-Grecia.jpg

The jury of seven women and five men, which last month convicted Mr. Tsarnaev, 21, of all 30 charges against him, 17 of which carry the death penalty, took more than 14 hours to reach its decision.

lame but not predictable

I mean BUT predictable

gah

Xps: did they wrap that dude all up in louis Vuitton and drain his blood into a Louis Vuitton bag?

surprised it took fourteen hours for the irate and voluble deems types of the jury to emotionally blackmail the wavering (probably women) into executing someone for crimes they committed as a teenager

anders breivik all nodding in approval eh folks

trenchancy will have occurred

yes but apart from deems this is a civil forum and u are within the clemency exemption clause for today

is putting a photogenic young person to death a good thing to do when they are also agitating about losing young impressionable people to ISIS? Or perhaps that fact is being taken into account? are we really having this conversation?

doubt the jury thought much about the death penalties possible impact on Daesh recruitment

I forgot this was a jury verdict. why do juries sometimes do the sentencing and sometimes not?

very lame and very predictable yes

I forgot this was a jury verdict. why do juries sometimes do the sentencing and sometimes not?

― akm, Friday, May 15, 2015 8:40 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

juries decide sentences in death penalty cases. otherwise its the judge.

~lols~

in Federal court for felony charges, the defendant HAS to have a jury trial at guilt/innocence and at sentencing the unless the prosecution and the judge both agree to let him waive it. most defendants want juries at both phases anyway (i didn't hear anything about Tsarnaev's counsel requesting a waiver), which is kind of weird considering judges are statistically more likely to acquit and give lower sentences.

whos gonna play the handsome dzhokhar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriots%27_Day_(film)

watched the marathon in person today for the first time in 10 years, there was enough added security to make the vibe a little weirder but all in all happiness and joy prevailed on the one day a year god smiles on the city of boston.

Thinking of the Boston contingent today...