the term 'boogie' as referring to early 80s post-disco R&B, C or D

Yeah, that's an essential comp, along with two Burgess collections also on Soul Brother. The second volume of Groove On Down is also very good.

During the much derided 'disco years' of the late 1970's - a period remembered by many for glitterballs, Saturday Night Fever and commercial excess on the dance floor - a large, mainly Black and Hispanic contingent were grooving to an array of underground club cuts otherwise unheard by the vast majority. The tracks that these devotees championed at the time were marked out by their soulfulness and integrity - something that most mainstream disco releases of the day had long since abandoned. Over time and through constant experimentation this music would evolve, and by the early 80's it became what is now known as 'Boogie' - typified by a slightly slower groove carried on a heavier back beat.

-- titchyschneiderMk2, Saturday, March 15, 2008 5:40 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Link

this is kinda bullshit tho. 'integrity'???

Yeah, I was gonna say; this is full of baloney, though who knows what "integrity" here is supposed to mean:

soulfulness and integrity - something that most mainstream disco releases of the day had long since abandoned

And yeah, I suppose the dumb platitude below applies to "many," but it really doesn't have much to do with most disco (or at least, there was plenty of late '70s disco it didn't apply to):

a period remembered by many for glitterballs, Saturday Night Fever and commercial excess on the dance floor

And like, why the fuck would disco care about "integrity" in the first place? (Part of what made it great to begin with is that it didn't. Or at least, didn't sound like it did.)

dancing to integrity is my fav

Dancing with integrity in my eyes.

It's probably just a marketing word so they can try to win over soul lovers who still have a problem with "disco". There is a sense of classiness to a lot of Boogie too.

Well... I do find it interesting that this odd little culty term, that was briefly popularised by a few hundred London scenesters in the late 1980s, has since crossed the Atlantic and found more common currency.

In the spirit of that age, I've dug out the mix tapes that my sister made for me in early 1989, when she was a regular on that scene ("Upfront" Friday nights at the Borderline with Trevor "Madhatter" Nelson and Gordon Mac in particular), hanging out at places like Red Records in Soho on Saturdays, and building up her own collection of re-issues and rarities. They were conceived as a souvenir soundtrack of the most played/memorable tracks at the club nights that she was attending at the time, and so may be of interest and tangential relevance. More importantly, every single track on these tapes, which I re-sourced and burnt to CD a few years ago and still play regularly, is utterly fantastic.

London's Old Fave Raves - Spring 1989.

CD1
Joy And Pain - Maze (81)
Want Ads - The Honey Come (71)
Dancin' - Grey & Hanks (78)
Stone To The Bone - James Brown (73)
Runaway Love - Linda Clifford (78)
The Groove - Rodney Franklin (80)
Love Injection - Trussel (79)
Running Away - Roy Ayers (77)
Expansions - Lonnie Liston Smith (75)
Let The Music Play - Charles Earland (78)
Risin' To The Top - Keni Burke (82)
Give Me Your Love - Sisters Love (73)

CD2
To Prove My Love - Ned Doheny (77)
Time Is Right - MCB (83)
Our Time Is Coming - Roy Ayers (82)
All About The Papers - The Dells (80)
Take Some Time Out For Love - The Salsoul Orchestra (79)
I Like What You're Doing To Me - Young & Company (80)
Number One - Patrice Rushen (82)
I Know You, I Live You - Chaka Khan (81)
Star - Earth, Wind & Fire (79)
A Lover's Holiday - Change (80)
The Glow Of Love - Change (80)
Annie Mae - Natalie Cole (77)
By All Means - Alphonse Mouzon (81)
A Chance For Peace (Give Peace A Chance) - Lonnie Liston Smith (80)

CD3
It's Alright Now - Eddie Harris (76)
Don't Make Me Wait - Peech Boys (82)
Movin' In The Right Direction - Steve Parks (81)
Brazilian Love Affair - George Duke (79)
Starchild - Level 42 (81)
Keep The Fire Burning - Gwen McCrae (82)
Disco Nights (Rock Freak) - GQ (79)
Back Together Again - Roberta Flack & Donnie Hathaway (80)
Always There - Willie Bobo (78)
Southern Freeez - Freeez (81)
What Are We Gonna Do About It - Mercy Mercy (85) (HIGHLY recommended)
Music Is My Sanctuary - Gary Bartz (77)
Can't You See Me - Roy Ayers (78)
Ain't No Time Fa Nothing - The Futures (78)
Miss Cheryl - Banda Black Rio (80)

From anecdotal memory and some limited personal experience, I'd say that the two biggest omissions would be Donald Byrd "(Fallin' Like) Dominoes" and Universal Robot Band "Barely Breaking Even" (82), massive anthems both.

From the list in the Greg Wilson piece that I linked above, I'd particularly recommend B.B.C.S & A Band "Rock Shock". A lot of this stuff is also covered in the Mastercuts "80s Groove" and "Rare Groove" comps: http://www.discogs.com/label/Mastercuts

Wow! Those tapes, Mike T! YSI?

Spun all these in a bar in Bed Stuy last night (and also "Rhythm of the Jungle" by the Quick, "Cutie Pie" by One Way, "Don't Make Me Wait" by Peech Boys, etc, among all sort of other kinds of things):

A2 Strikers, The Body Music (7:40)
C1 Secret Weapon (2) Must Be The Music (6:52)
C2 Unlimited Touch Searching To Find The One (6:53)
D2 Nick Straker Band A Little Bit Of Jazz (6:33)

i would love to hear those tapes.

xpost - by integrity i think they just mean 'not blatantly doing any and everything to go 100% pop'. whether that was on purpose or just a stylistic change in the music anyway, i dont know.

'not blatantly doing any and everything to go 100% pop'

Yeah, maybe that's what they were trying to say. But if so, they're still dumb, since plenty of late '70s disco didn't go pop (and plenty of this r&b stuff people have been calling "boogie" did, obviously) (and on both sides, the pop stuff is often the best.)

Want Ads - The Honey Come (71)

You KNOW I meant "Cone". Sheesh.

How does one get copies of these discs?

I love that Mercy Mercy record too. Your sister has very good taste Mike.

I'd say the cutoff for all this stuff is around 1986 though, no? I know some European collectors like to go up to 1989, but around '86 I find the production in most r&b shifts away from the disco/funk roots to being more bombastic and/or more pop, not to mention the rise of hip-hop, house, Jam & Lewis, and early new jack swing adding influences.

I agree, Michael: definitely a 1986 cut-off, and to these ears specifically around summer 1986, as the BPMs swung back up again and other genres took over.

"Yeah, maybe that's what they were trying to say. But if so, they're still dumb, since plenty of late '70s disco didn't go pop (and plenty of this r&b stuff people have been calling "boogie" did, obviously) (and on both sides, the pop stuff is often the best.)

-- xhuxk"

hmm, i have to disagree about this. most of the really poppy disco was in fact pretty terrible, it was the underground stuff stuff that was mostly decent. by the time the more r+b sounding boogie came into being, it was pretty good all around, both the poppy stuff and the underground stuff. but i definitely see a difference in the "integrity" of the two styles, much disco was made as a cash in while boogie was kind of just an extension of soul music which was always okay with being popular but i dont think it was its primary objective.

There's no need to romanticize non-crossover disco to the point of not acknowledging just how much total shit there was out there.

That said, pop crossover would be a distinct minority in my own list of the 100 best disco songs.

this thread is getting out of control. i am still not clear if i know what we are talking about in this thread. early 80s prelude style, right? NOT "rare groove"???

80s Prelude is a good generic reference point, but I think what this thread shows is that "boogie" can encompass many different genre strands in the post-disco era. There are some rare grooves that would be considered boogie, and hell, I've seen "2-step soul" mixes with a lot of boogie sounding tracks.

omg pipecock still a tard

most of the really poppy disco was in fact pretty terrible, it was the underground stuff stuff that was mostly decent

dude come the fuck on

Yeah really. Where's the terrible track on this:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:0pfwxqw5ldhe"> http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:0pfwxqw5ldhe

both the KC ones, for starters.

Horse. Shit.

Back to boogie. Boogie is bourgie. And some of the best boogie is the bourgiest.

Definitely a British term, and I believe the people making the music at this time all called it "funk." Anytime the lyrics references the music or the feel of the music, it's "we got the funk", "I'm gonna give the funk to right now", etc.

Most of the disco tunes using the word "funk" (or "funky") tended to have funk elements, in that the beat wasn't just plain 4/4 but there was also some slightly element of syncopation in there. No?

mike, that CD set looks great! I've never heard some of them, like "Dancin" by Grey and Hanks. "Love Injection" by Trussel is one of the greatest songs ever recorded, of course.

I'm curious about the "scene" these CDs were compiled in honour of. 1989, huh?

i think there can be a difference between 'mainstream poppiness' and 'black music poppiness'. obviously there can be a lot of overlap but theres certain R&B/disco/boogie/whatever tracks that are obviously great songs with populist appeal but they arent/werent going to be big pop hits.

It would have been partly the original fans of the stuff. After all it was only 5-10 years in the past. Plus the underground warehouse type scene that Soul II Soul were at the forefront of. I remember listening to Kiss FM (London) in those days (they were not yet legal but used to broadcast pretty consistently at the weekends). A lot of the older music still got played. It's a process of evolution. Nothing just cuts off abruptly.

Yeah dubmill I think that's what's interesting to me. It's sort of like if someone started up a classic 2-step garage night in London right now, or something.

I do agree that it seems weird that in 1989, there was a scene based on reviving tunes that weren't even a decade old yet. A sort of instant nostalgia for the people who grew up with them, and a quick catch-up history lesson for those who hadn't. I can also see that it was a logical follow-on from the mid-1970s funk revivalism of the original early 1987-era rare groove scene, as once that period had been thoroughly excavated then it would have made sense to keep moving forwards. That's certainly what Norman Jay did on his weekly KISS FM rare groove show, back in the station's pirate days.

N.B. When KISS finally opened as a legal station in 1990, it was these old soul boys that initially dominated. Over the opening weekend, you barely heard a contemporary tune.

Anyhow, once you've revived everything up until 3 or 4 years ago, then the only way forward is to return to the contemporary.

Tracer: According to my sis, Trussel's "Love Injection" was one of THE Friday night @ the Borderline tunes, played every week.

It doesn't seem especially weird to me because in a sense they weren't being revived - they just carried on being played, certainly by the old school Kiss DJs, eg Norman Jay, Trevor Nelson, Tony Monson and so on. Of course there was a younger listener for whom it was something they were being 'educated' about as opposed to having heard it when it first came out.

I think it was only with the advent of New Jack Swing that the earlier music began to seem truly old.

This is a waaaaay better single-disc comp of pop disco.

http://www.amazon.com/Disco-54-Collection-Various-Artists/dp/B000005KOY

(sorry, that was like a 12-hour x-post)

"Yeah really. Where's the terrible track on this:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:0pfwxqw5ldhe

-- Kevin John Bozelka"

you want me to name just one?

The Hustle Van McCoy
That's the Way (I Like It) KC & the Sunshine Band
Car Wash Rose Royce
Disco Inferno Trammps
(Shake, Shake, Shake) Shake Your Booty KC & the Sunshine Band
You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real) Sylvester
Miss Broadway Belle Epoque

that's like half of it. and some of the most offensively crap pop disco isnt even on there: the village people, "kung fu fighting", so many bad cover/disco versions, etc.

"This is a waaaaay better single-disc comp of pop disco.

http://www.amazon.com/Disco-54-Collection-Various-Artists/dp/B000005KOY

-- Eric H."

Car Wash - Rose Royce
Instant Replay - Dan Hartman

in fact you are correct, only 2 that i despise on that one. i'm not trying to paint a picture of anything that wasnt true, there were tons of bad disco records in the straight up disco era and in the boogie era. the thing is, the best boogie songs were often billboard r&b hits if nothing else, while so many of the pop disco jams were just atrocious. i blame the corny white disco people who didnt know what good dance music sounded like but bought lots of albums.

You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real) Sylvester

you gotta be fucking kidding me

i blame the corny white disco people who didnt know what good dance music sounded like but bought lots of albums.

-- pipecock, Monday, March 17, 2008 6:13 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Link

dom where is cornywhitepipecock.jpg

i mean dude no one is arguing there wasnt corny pop disco. whats your point? if you think there wasn't corny early 80s R&B yr tripping tho, just because that shit didnt make pure funk soundtracks doesnt mean it didnt exist - it sounds like yr familiarity w/ that shit basically begins and ends w/ the (corny) "boogie canon".

thats the only thing i can figure man.

but there are tons of 'boogie canon' shit that i think is wack anyway ... just like theres a decent # of P&P tracks where after awhile it just all starts to blend together and you wish some dude like sylvester would swoop in and save it all

Deej, how often do you play records for people in clubs?

You Make Me Feel Mighty Real is genius. Yr crazy.

xp about 1nce a month. i wasnt posting that as a dj or anything, purely listener perspective

Soul II Soul were way cornier than any of this stuff, regardless. (But yeah, any purist putz who hates "Car Wash" and "Disco Inferno" and KC and Sylvester is living on some idiot planet I never want to visit. If you leave that stuff out of your definition of disco, you might as well stick to folk festivals.)

I mean, there is almost NOTHING cornier than "let's keep our holy organic authentic soul music free from Top 40 additives than most people find fun" bullshit.

And I seriously doubt "corny white disco people" were the Trammps' primary audience, for God's sake.

(And "Instant Reply" by Dan Hartman is one of the great bubble-disco songs of all time, by the way.)

"Miss Broadway" by Belle Epoque = One of history's most remarkable Bo Diddley rips. Jeezh. (Which yeah, is somewhat less corny than fucking smooth jazz.)

this is such a great turning point album. you can smell the 80's coming. school of 79 disco meets turn of the decade electro/r&b. every dj should own a copy.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415WTDRA6NL._AA240_.jpg

(xp: Nothing against folk festivals and smooth jazz, which of course can be wonderful sometimes. Just have no interest in picking them instead of music that happens to have awesome hooks in it.)

"Soul II Soul were way cornier than any of this stuff, regardless"

whats SIIS got to do with boogie?

They're mentioned upthread; do a search.

Every DJ should own "Shake It Up (Do The Boogaloo)" by Rod (last name: Niangandoumou). Surprised nobody's mentioned that here; it's from 1981, right?