actually for this era dead (68-69 that is, i realize "era" wrt the dead could be as much as a couple years or as little as a few nights) as much as i love live/dead my favorite is really two from the vault, dark star there is a little shorter but hits is pretty majestic
― marcos, Friday, 22 May 2015 19:52 (eight years ago) link
Turn on your lovelight suddenly has got a live atmosphere. I am slowly advancing in the course of things. frantic girls which are hooked by the music are screaming. Something else i didn't realize before is how much the dead sound like a folk rock band. And more european than american. There is also a lot of the doors in the dead. In both bands the keyboards play an important role. They kind of create the cosmic, psychedelic sound. But of course i voted for live with lou reed.
― it's the distortion, stupid! (alex in mainhattan), Friday, 22 May 2015 20:06 (eight years ago) link
Prob won't try to choose, but this VU live 2-LP always fascinated me, the way this always proudly no-blues, anti-hippie 60s band's *rootsiness* just ambled right out of the closet here, although Moe's Bo Diddly thing and other elements were there, just a bit, in the studio versions---but damn this lonesome sidewalk cowpoke version of "Sweet Jane," all this stuff---and with no condescension or pandering to their Texas audience---thought about this set soon as I started hearing about cowpunk, a few years later (also think Paul Nelson edited well, considering what I've since heard of the original tapes, though certainly haven't heard all of 'em).
― dow, Friday, 22 May 2015 20:08 (eight years ago) link
Funny how the Dead record has more feedback than the Velvets'.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 22 May 2015 21:30 (eight years ago) link
yeah i remember being pretty surprised when i first heard the casual choogle of "waiting for the man" that leads off live 1969. loved it though. guess the thing that Live 1969 is really missing is "Sister Ray." Maybe the jammy nature of that song in 69 didn't seem to fit the narrative of the band in 1974 when they were kinda riding the Bowie/Glam wave. Funny that there wasn't an officially released live "Ray" until the Quine Tapes...
― tylerw, Friday, 22 May 2015 21:33 (eight years ago) link
Although even as edited/condensed, the resulting double-LP gets pretty darn jammy!
― dow, Friday, 22 May 2015 21:39 (eight years ago) link
even kinda laidback, in its way. Groovy.
― dow, Friday, 22 May 2015 21:41 (eight years ago) link
I don't think there was a "Sister Ray" from those tapes/shows that would've fit on an LP side!
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 22 May 2015 23:34 (eight years ago) link
i just love that green on VU 69 for some reason. perfect color.
ocean is ten minutes of just absolutely sublime music.
otm
― drash, Friday, 22 May 2015 23:51 (eight years ago) link
Lou & Doug don't seem to have actually heard any music from San Francisco but are content to respond to some pictures they saw in Look
― New Rick Wakeman Solo Effort, Saturday, 23 May 2015 00:26 (eight years ago) link
"They can't play" is kind of lol coming from Lou Reed.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 23 May 2015 19:26 (eight years ago) link
I've been wanting to play Dick's Picks #22 for a VU fan/Dead hater, as the similarities between that and Live 1969 are striking to the point that, in certain passages, the two bands are almost indistinguishable from one another.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Saturday, 23 May 2015 19:50 (eight years ago) link
OTM Tarfumes. That is why I find Yule's comments so choice.
― grandavis, Saturday, 23 May 2015 19:55 (eight years ago) link
Have yall heard the Yardbirds do "I'm Waiting For The Man"? LA '68:http://bigozine2.com/roio/?p=2339
― dow, Saturday, 23 May 2015 20:26 (eight years ago) link
(also, got a '67 tape where the Dead do a version of "Cream Puff War" which might be YU influenced--anyway, sounds like something I'd expect from a CBGB band a decade later---but they dropped that song from their setlists pretty early, right?)
― dow, Saturday, 23 May 2015 20:29 (eight years ago) link
Did Sterling ever say anything about The Dead?
― Proclus Hiriam (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 23 May 2015 21:35 (eight years ago) link
I'd be surprised if he hasn't.
― Mark G, Saturday, 23 May 2015 23:16 (eight years ago) link
In that long Sterling interview in the VU companion, I seem to recall him commenting on the Dead, but saving real praise for Quicksilver Messenger Service.
― Love, Wilco (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 24 May 2015 00:00 (eight years ago) link
yeah he was a big cippolina booster -- don't know what he thought of the Dead, though he probably took Lou's view.the VU really hated Bill Graham (and the feeling was mutual), which i think colored everything for them about the SF scene.
― tylerw, Sunday, 24 May 2015 00:28 (eight years ago) link
VU (and arthur lee) otm re: bill graham
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 24 May 2015 00:41 (eight years ago) link
lol at saying the jefferson airplane "can't play". it really is a clash of opposites, in a way. i remember jorma and jack in some interview/documentary going off on how bemused/disturbed they were by pre-punk stuff like the who destroying their instruments... "like, instruments are like sacred temples, man"
― brimstead, Sunday, 24 May 2015 00:46 (eight years ago) link
jefferson airplane's music is a lot darker and more fucked up then they're given credit for, anyways.
― brimstead, Sunday, 24 May 2015 00:48 (eight years ago) link
the true darkness comes in the starship age
― Joan Crawford Loves Chachi, Sunday, 24 May 2015 00:54 (eight years ago) link
In any case, the Velvets didn’t return to California for two years. As Sterling said in his usual manner, “We left California alone for two years, because they’re so determined to do their own thing, their own San Francisco music. We were just rocking the boat – they don’t want to know about that. ‘There’s only one music, and we all know what that is…it’s what the Grateful Dead play. That’s the very best rock & roll can ever get…’ We said, ‘You’re full of shit, your city, your state, and everything else.’”
― salthigh, Sunday, 24 May 2015 03:58 (eight years ago) link
hahaha love it
― brimstead, Sunday, 24 May 2015 04:00 (eight years ago) link
wonder what the "I have heard neither of these albums but I'm still voting" split will look like -- I fall into that camp & I vote VU, but only partly out of spite
― Heroic melancholy continues to have a forceful grip on (bernard snowy), Sunday, 24 May 2015 04:31 (eight years ago) link
Wish there was as much VU recorded live between 65 and 70 as there is GD. Especially the Cale years.Still I do love the GD speshly August 'ö8, Feb '69 and May '70 but there is other really good stuff by them over those years and up to the '74 retirement, beyond to some extent too.
― Stevolende, Sunday, 24 May 2015 07:17 (eight years ago) link
would love to hear the acid test stuff. only really early live dead i've heard are those two lps of 66 live material that came out on (i think) mgm in the early 70's & are pretty ropey performance-wise.
dunno if the vu's rehearsals for the max's kansas city run have been released officially, but there's some great stuff in there from memory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYr5D4lqC0w
― no lime tangier, Sunday, 24 May 2015 08:26 (eight years ago) link
They were sort-of released, they came out as part of the 2 disc promo, but were dropped when the deluxe edition came out.
― Mark G, Sunday, 24 May 2015 08:44 (eight years ago) link
I never much cared for live VU - better in the studio.
....just the opposite for the Dead.
― bodacious ignoramus, Sunday, 24 May 2015 14:44 (eight years ago) link
live VU can be awesome but 69 live is dull as dishwater imo. I know lotsa people love that jangly pastoral VU style but to me it really amplifies a lot of weaknesses in Lou's writing, weaknesses that can be submerged in pure volume.
― Joan Crawford Loves Chachi, Sunday, 24 May 2015 14:54 (eight years ago) link
there are so many other dead live artifacts i never get back to live/dead, so i guess the velvets record
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Sunday, 24 May 2015 15:16 (eight years ago) link
Don't agree that it's just jangly or that there are important weaknesses in Lou's VU songs, but either way, the Gymnasium set is a satisfying Cale-era onslaught, prob still posted here and there.
― dow, Sunday, 24 May 2015 15:23 (eight years ago) link
"heavenly wine and roses seems to whisper to me when you smile"
Delmore Schwartz lols from the grave at that line
― Joan Crawford Loves Chachi, Sunday, 24 May 2015 21:03 (eight years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Thursday, 28 May 2015 00:01 (eight years ago) link
OH SHIT
― tylerw, Thursday, 28 May 2015 00:10 (eight years ago) link
yes, from a tremendous height, onto the dead.
― wishy washy hippy variety hour (Hunt3r), Thursday, 28 May 2015 02:50 (eight years ago) link
I've never owned that VU record, but from the parts I've heard it surely gets my vote. I'm another one of those "I've tried" types with Live/Dead, and it'll never be my thing.
― Competent Cracker Barrel Manager (Dan Peterson), Thursday, 28 May 2015 14:01 (eight years ago) link
there are so many other dead live artifactsthis is why i voted for the VU ultimately, though Live/Dead is a great example of the classic double live LP.
― tylerw, Thursday, 28 May 2015 14:06 (eight years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Friday, 29 May 2015 00:01 (eight years ago) link
Quite.
― Mark G, Friday, 29 May 2015 00:26 (eight years ago) link
Back in yr stinky hippyhole deadheads
― Οὖτις, Friday, 29 May 2015 00:58 (eight years ago) link
:(
― J. Sam, Friday, 29 May 2015 01:01 (eight years ago) link
― marcos, Friday, 29 May 2015 01:20 (eight years ago) link
Frank Zappa is rolling over in his grave
― Hup The Junction (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 29 May 2015 01:34 (eight years ago) link
Too close
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 29 May 2015 03:05 (eight years ago) link
The answer is so obviously live/dead... get with it dorks
― global tetrahedron, Saturday, 17 February 2018 12:08 (six years ago) link
rong
― albondigas con gas (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 17 February 2018 12:28 (six years ago) link
I enjoy both but have to go with VU. I also love that Dark Star. I still recall hearing it and thinking, " ohhh, so this is why some people say T Verlaine sounds like J Garcia ". Until then i'd only heard Workingmans and American Beauty, and thought, "wtf are they talking about"? Lol. I know better now. Also I strongly dislike "lovelight".
― VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Saturday, 17 February 2018 12:47 (six years ago) link
I'll always choose a group reinventing rock, in their own image, over white boys imitating Otis Redding re "Lovelight".
― VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Saturday, 17 February 2018 12:53 (six years ago) link
Thanks tyler, it's all so confusing. One of the entries at discogs shows the following recording dates for one of the "Legendary Guitar Amp Tapes" boots, which is why I was confused:
Tracks 1-1 to 2-1: Boston Tea Party, March 15, 1969Tracks 2-2 and 2-4: Boston Tea Party, December 12, 1968Track 2-3: Boston Tea Party, July 11, 1969
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 2 December 2021 16:28 (two years ago) link
that boot contains bonus stuff on the second disc that IS from the professor tapes. Tyler is correct and I was wrong: these are the shows:
professor tapes1968/12/12 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party1969/01/10 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party1969/03/13 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party1969/07/11 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party1969/08/02 Mason, NH - Hilltop Pop Festival
legendary guitar amp1969/03/15 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party
― StanM, Thursday, 2 December 2021 16:33 (two years ago) link
Thanks! This is all such a muddled mess for someone just diving in a little deeper.
Another question, while we're on it, is the first night of the Cole Ave. shows really that much worse than the second night? Seeing a lot of commentary that there is a pretty stark difference between the two nights.
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 2 December 2021 16:37 (two years ago) link
Has anyone mentioned Poor Richard's yet?
― Goofy the Grifter (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 December 2021 16:40 (two years ago) link
xp it's definitely lower-fi, but it's not awful or anything, the taper was just further back
― chaos goblin line cook (sleeve), Thursday, 2 December 2021 16:47 (two years ago) link
xpost Poor Richard's? You mean these two tracks (Heroin & Venus In Furs with Cale on vocals) from the Exploding Plastic Inevitable film by Andy Warhol & Ronald Nameth, recorded at Poor Richard's Club, Chicago, Illinois 6/23/1966 ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBfnukdsmSs
― StanM, Thursday, 2 December 2021 16:48 (two years ago) link
xp - Thanks sleeve, I wasn't clear if the "worse" was referring to audio quality or playing performance. Dodgy sounding cavernous bootlegs don't exactly scare me off.
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 2 December 2021 16:49 (two years ago) link
oohhh gotcha jon, no the performances are fine
― chaos goblin line cook (sleeve), Thursday, 2 December 2021 16:50 (two years ago) link
that Hilltop show is great as well, and unique in that it is the only live boot of them at an outdoor festival where they could really crank it up
― chaos goblin line cook (sleeve), Thursday, 2 December 2021 16:51 (two years ago) link
Wait, Nico and Lou weren't at the Poor Richards' gig. Oh, I see.
― Goofy the Grifter (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 December 2021 17:26 (two years ago) link
First Night at Cole Ave. is a really interesting document if you can get through the somewhat lo-fi sound (though it isn't that bad, just not nearly as good as the second night). Lots of mellow numbers with some cool Lou talk.
― tylerw, Thursday, 2 December 2021 17:26 (two years ago) link
And if you're really jonesing, the remastered, expanded Live At Max's Kansas City is not too bad---I wouldn't buy it, but heard it a while back on either Spotify or YouTube.Xgau:3 Stars***THE VELVET UNDERGROUNDLive at Max's Kansas City (Deluxe Edition)Atlantic/Rhino
A last-ditch product of 1972 becomes a you-are-there keepsake of 2004
Recorded in notorious lo-fi from the table of Andy Warhol hanger-on Brigid Polk in 1970, Lou Reed's last Velvets show until 1993 is one of the few collector's items to gain patina with the remastered, bonus-cutted, double-disc overkill of the CD era. Although the basic effect is still that of hearing a band from the back of a noisy bar, the audio is crisper and more forceful. Although original bassist/viola player John Cale and drummer Mo Tucker are gone, Reed does sing songs performed in their official studio versions by Nico and auxiliary member Doug Yule. And although Live 1969 remains the essential document, it is cool to hear Polk's buddies chatting obliviously about Richard Nixon and Tuinols as punk's forefathers go gamely into that good night.
Blender, Aug. 2004
― dow, Thursday, 2 December 2021 19:06 (two years ago) link
auxiliary member---forgot about that tag---poor Doug!
― dow, Thursday, 2 December 2021 19:08 (two years ago) link
there's yet another remastered version of Max's Kansas City on the Loaded/ReLoaded anniversary thing - (with 2 tracks missing so it could fit on one CD I guess: Who Loves The Sun & Sweet Jane (version2) )
― StanM, Thursday, 2 December 2021 19:10 (two years ago) link
which one has the great recording of I think I'm falling in love?
― plax (ico), Thursday, 2 December 2021 19:17 (two years ago) link
Live At the Gymnasium?
― When Smeato Met Moaty (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 December 2021 19:20 (two years ago) link
I don't know, I just wanted to be in the chat!
― plax (ico), Thursday, 2 December 2021 19:22 (two years ago) link
Background, according to Wiki:The Velvet Underground signed a two-album deal with Atlantic in early 1970 and released their fourth studio album, Loaded, in November 1970. By the time of its release, singer/guitarist/main songwriter Lou Reed had left. The rest of the band stayed together, with bassist Doug Yule moving to vocals and guitar and Walter Powers being drafted in to play bass.
This line-up did a tour of the United States and Canada promoting Loaded. As the band still had a contract for another album, they wrote and played new songs eventually to be included on it. Atlantic had lost faith in the band's commercial prospects and, wanting to cut their losses after the disappointing chart showings of Loaded, decided to release an archive live recording instead.
The tapes that would later become Live at Max's Kansas City were recorded on August 23, 1970, by Andy Warhol associate Brigid Polk on a portable cassette recorder. While they were recording Loaded, the Velvet Underground held a nine-week engagement (June 24 – August 28, 1970) at New York City nightclub Max's Kansas City, playing two sets a night. Polk recorded almost everything happening around her at the time, and this happened to include her attendance of the last concert that Lou Reed played with the Velvet Underground. She recorded both the early and the late set. Later that year, Atlantic A&R employee Danny Fields heard the tapes and submitted them to his superiors, who accepted the recordings and in 1972 decided to make an album out of them. The line-up at the concerts consisted of Reed, Yule, lead guitarist Sterling Morrison and drummer Billy Yule, the younger brother of Doug Yule; regular drummer Maureen Tucker temporarily left the group several months earlier when she became pregnant with her first child, Kerry "Trucker" Tucker.
Originally, Live at Max's Kansas City was a single album distillation of both sets re-sequenced and edited by Lou Reed and Atlantic staff producer Geoff Haslam to reflect the band's loud and quiet sides, respectively. On August 3, 2004, Warner Music re-issue label Rhino Records released a two-CD Deluxe Edition that contains both sets in their entirety in their original running order. The songs were recorded on a mono recorder using a simple ferro musicassette in a small venue, resulting in tape hiss and an audience often drowning out the quieter bits of music.
Author Jim Carroll can be heard speaking on the album, ordering drinks and inquiring about drugs between songs as he was the one holding the microphone. Who was talking about Nixon?
― dow, Thursday, 2 December 2021 19:23 (two years ago) link
Not seeing that one, plax---this is the double:2004 reissue editionAll tracks written by Lou Reed except as indicated.
Disc oneNo. Title Length1. "I'm Waiting for the Man" 5:502. "White Light/White Heat" 6:073. "I'm Set Free" 5:334. "Sweet Jane" (Version 1) 6:185. "Lonesome Cowboy Bill" (Version 1) 4:416. "New Age" 6:447. "Beginning to See the Light" 5:40Disc twoNo. Title Length8. "Who Loves the Sun" 2:179. "Sweet Jane" (Version 2) 5:5810. "I'll Be Your Mirror" 3:0211. "Pale Blue Eyes" 7:1012. "Candy Says" 5:4813. "Sunday Morning" (Reed, Cale) 3:4814. "After Hours" 2:5015. "Femme Fatale" 4:0716. "Some Kinda Love" 11:2217. "Lonesome Cowboy Bill" (Version 2) 5:0018. "Atlantic release promo" (hidden track)
― dow, Thursday, 2 December 2021 19:25 (two years ago) link
They also show the 2016:2016 reissue editionAll tracks written by Lou Reed except as indicated.
No. Title Length1. "I'm Waiting for the Man" 5:442. "White Light/White Heat" 5:153. "I'm Set Free" 6:274. "Sweet Jane" 6:175. "Lonesome Cowboy Bill" (Version 1) 4:206. "New Age" 6:387. "Beginning to See the Light" 5:428. "I'll Be Your Mirror" 3:279. "Pale Blue Eyes" 6:0110. "Candy Says" 5:5011. "Sunday Morning" (Reed, Cale) 3:3912. "After Hours" 2:5813. "Femme Fatale" 3:0914. "Some Kinda Love" 11:0315. "Lonesome Cowboy Bill" (Version 2) 4:17
― dow, Thursday, 2 December 2021 19:27 (two years ago) link
PersonnelThe Velvet UndergroundSterling Morrison – lead guitar, backing vocalsLou Reed – vocals, rhythm guitarDoug Yule – bass guitar, backing vocals, lead vocal on "Lonesome Cowboy Bill", "Who Loves the Sun", "I'll Be Your Mirror", "I'm Set Free", "Candy Says" and "New Age"Billy Yule – drums, cowbell
― dow, Thursday, 2 December 2021 19:29 (two years ago) link
The Gymnasium "Guess..." is also on Peel Slowly & See.
― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 2 December 2021 19:33 (two years ago) link
I also think they'd quite playing it live by '70.
― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 2 December 2021 19:34 (two years ago) link
I doubt they played it live after Cale left.
― When Smeato Met Moaty (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 December 2021 19:35 (two years ago) link