Rolling 2015 Thread on Race

is she getting a lot of shit from the African-American community? kinda hard for me to tell

oh you have no idea

http://verysmartbrothas.com/nothing-wrong-with-making-jokes-about-ridiculous-ass-rachel-dolezal/

the whole thing has reminded me of a conceptual framework I used to find compelling, which is that you can think of ethnic definitions as being enforced from without, rather than from within, an ethnic group. For ex. if the white slaveowner said you were black, for all intents and purposes you were effectively black; or if the Nazi said you were a Jew, well then you were a Jew. Basically you get defined by the enemy, by the power structure. (Obviously this is not entirely accurate as there are various nuances and exceptions but still)

xp

and in Dolezal's case the power structure - ie, white people - are saying she is white.

parents are kinda the ultimate platonic power structure

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261928418053?afsrc=1&rmvSB=true

yeah parents provide a definitional framework, pass along social norms, provide historical and social context - they determine what the family is and what group(s) it belongs to.

of course there are other factors (particularly with blackness) cf Obama

xp

found this compelling, from a link in DJP's link: http://www.ebony.com/news-views/last-rachel-dolezal-thinkpiece-ever-065#axzz3dEyB7vP5

the whole thing has reminded me of a conceptual framework I used to find compelling, which is that you can think of ethnic definitions as being enforced from without, rather than from within, an ethnic group. For ex. if the white slaveowner said you were black, for all intents and purposes you were effectively black; or if the Nazi said you were a Jew, well then you were a Jew. Basically you get defined by the enemy, by the power structure. (Obviously this is not entirely accurate as there are various nuances and exceptions but still)

From Hans Fallada's prison diary, there's a quote from Goering "'I decide who is a Jew," that related to his appointing Jewish Erhard Milch as a general.

https://jewishphilosophyplace.wordpress.com/2015/06/16/being-black-being-jewish-julius-lester-rachel-dolezal/

woah, good read.

Tyler the creator makes a similar argument
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYIi-7hnwhA

It would be nice if identity works that way, but it doesn't - there is a social aspect to it, it involves how others see and treat you.

I've been thinking about the Dolezal situation, from my point of ignorance, and wondered what really defines personal identity when it comes to race. I think your formative years, whether it's your youth or the beginning of your time in a new social culture, define your self image in regards to your society. Within that period, there's another differentiator: how others view you, and your own self image. Some ethnic/racial signposts will brand you to others, but you can experience little branding in your community yet feel like an outsider based on your familial/cultural ties that other people might not realize.

I think the mystifying thing is that Rachel Dolezal had parents with what sounds like a fairly open attitude toward acceptance but she was from the rural northwest, didn't have black siblings until she was older, and somehow, to her view, became black after college? Being black, for better or worse, is a thing that's still wrapped up in historical and present day discrimination and it sounds, through weird police reports, like she tried to do little sacrificial rituals of falsified discrimination and racism to make herself more black.

I sometimes wonder what this kid who was the first chair violinist at the bougie suburban high school in my area is up to these days. The only assumption I can make, based on the little I knew about him, is he probably has a higher economic standing than me now, but he probably also gets pulled over by the cops for no particular reason where I don't, because the dude was black. Nobody's sitting around making those assumptions about Dolezal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to8UKH7NHnA

http://i.imgur.com/1k1iwmG.jpg

I've been thinking about the Dolezal situation, from my point of ignorance, and wondered what really defines personal identity when it comes to race. I think your formative years, whether it's your youth or the beginning of your time in a new social culture, define your self image in regards to your society.

I think about this quite often. I am mixed race, and this was pretty obvious to others when I was a kid - brown skin, afro hair etc. So that was my formative identity living in a village and surrounding area which was p much exclusively white (no other black or mixed kids at my primary school, 2 black kids at my secondary school out of 1,400 pupils)probably reinforced my otherness to me . But over time. well tbh I've gotten much paler, and as I started to lose my hair I decided to start shaving my head. So now and for the last few years I probably 'pass' for white to the vast majority of people I meet. So if society now sees me as white and interacts with me on this basis does this mean I am no longer mixed race in any meaningful sense?

one of my thoughts when i first read about this was that dolezal's supposed "confusion" about her racial identity kind of hijacked the genuine grief and confusion that those of "mixed race" have to deal with. maybe she comes by a little of that honestly, but not much of it IMO.

I'm sure this whole public ridicule and shaming is intensely painful.

eh to hear her brother tell it, she made a decision to start deceiving people as a 30-something woman and asked other people to keep the ruse up:
http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/16/rachel-dolezals-brother-shes-white-and-pretending-to-be-black-video/

she sought out public life on false pretenses. even if you do feel sympathy people who get shamed on the internet for some stupid moment that became a meme, that is not what this is, at all.

i don't think grief is the right word you're looking for there amatuerist

i don't think anybody forced her to go on the today show

huh? you don't think people of mixed racial parentage often get grief in american society? (or maybe you were thinking of the other use of the word "grief"?) i know some folks who would beg to differ.

ah, "grief" as in "static/hassle"

that makes more sense

I was just imagining sobbing multiracial people and getting concerned

It's hard being multi-racial and beautiful, true

how big do you think her book deal is gonna be? gonna be a bidding war, i'll bet.

huh? you don't think people of mixed racial parentage often get grief in american society? (or maybe you were thinking of the other use of the word "grief"?) i know some folks who would beg to differ.

― he quipped with heat (amateurist), Wednesday, June 17, 2015 9:17 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tbqh i think a lot of people don't, or at least don't get more than ppl who are not white but also not seen as multi-racial in some sense. and the idea that being multi-racial has its own set of difficult issues is i think sometimes overstated.

which is different from the whole range of issues surrounding shades of skin tone in a specifically black/white context.

she sought out public life on false pretenses

agree that this seems like the real heart of the problem w Dolezal. If she was just some weird woman who decided to go to extremes to become part of this particular ethnic group I doubt it would be such a big deal.

she was a public figure. on the local level anyway.

I think that's part of the point...? Like, if she was a random woman who kept showing up at the local African Dance class with blond Crystal Gale braids and a daishiki, she'd just be seen as eccentric; it's the going whole-hog and leading the NAACP while also being on the police oversight board and being a professor of Africana while having this entire backstory that seems to be made up of weird half-truths and the veracity of the racial attacks she said were directed towards her... It's the 1-2 combo of "super black" overcorrection with the apparent lying that makes her fascinating/hilarious.

yup

"Like, if she was a random woman who kept showing up at the local African Dance class with blond Crystal Gale braids and a daishiki, she'd just be seen as eccentric"

OMG! We Went To A Party!

Trust me, I'm not being a homophobe when I laugh like hell at politicians such as Larry Craig.

Speaking of Idaho.

+ the suing howard for discriminating against white ppl part

I think Melissa Harris-Perry actually said that suit was about gender discrimination, not racial discrimination? I heard that somewhere, don't remember where (and don't care enough to actually read the lawsuit documents)

one of her claims was this:

The court opinion also noted that Dolezal claimed that the university’s decision to remove some of her artworks from a February 2001 student exhibition was “motivated by a discriminatory purpose to favor African-American students over” her.

i think it was the whole kit and kaboodle... she alleged discriminating on the basis of race, sex, and the fact that she was pregnant/a single mom.

xpost

xpost, yes i think she alleged a number of discriminatory acts, on the basis of race but also other stuff

the "kitchen sink" approach to discrimination litigation

well this proves that whatever else she is, she is definitively American

kit, kaboodles, and kitchen sinks and everything.

yeah the interesting/hilarious thing is she's sort of by her very being relying on some notion of non-arbitrariness in the idea of "race" but then she does things that completely essentialize the idea, and she's living out these two incompatible notions that "i can choose my race" and "race is fundamental to this society" at once.

throw in the whole nine yards and you've got yourself a lawsuit

xpost

xpost, yes i think she alleged a number of discriminatory acts, on the basis of race but also other stuff

the "kitchen sink" approach to discrimination litigation

― he quipped with heat (amateurist), Wednesday, June 17, 2015 12:48 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark

tbf this is how litigation works, you throw every conceivable and non-frivolous claim you have and see what sticks

kit, kaboodles, and kitchen sinks and everything.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 17 June 2015 17:51 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

she brought lots of 'k's

one of her claims was this:

The court opinion also noted that Dolezal claimed that the university’s decision to remove some of her artworks from a February 2001 student exhibition was “motivated by a discriminatory purpose to favor African-American students over” her.

― 龜, Wednesday, June 17, 2015 12:45 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Playing a really long game of "If you can't beat them, join them".

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/06/17/rachel_dolezal_was_raised_by_strict_fundamentalists_the_revelation_sheds.html