Guitar Hero: Nu-Who Season 9

Not sure Jenny actually had the power of regeneration. When she apparently died she came back as the same actress. That that actress is Mrs David Tennant may be the reason behind that though.

She's also Peter Davison, Jr

That Face of Bo thing does seem to be open to interpretation I would have thought. It's certainly not been the older face of Bo saying that he is the later part of the younger Harkness's life . & the younger Harkness does say that he had this role in incidental fashion. Not sure what is said that leads to him saying it but what the doctor says after it makes it look like it may or may not be.

Not sure what does constitute canon or whether something like taht would be further explored if characters aren't going to be used in depth through later stories. Did Face of bo reappear during Smith's doctor, not sure if Harkness was fighting to save Amy Pond's stolen baby or not.

I would tend to find something said in passing not to be absolutely concrete in terms of canon. & would personally want something more definite to think of it as an absolute.
But not sure what is down in writing anywhere and still think it might be something that was a writer's in-joke or knowing wink something.

I had no idea who Maisie Williams is

Huh, you don't watch Game of Thrones, Tuomas?

Since the Doctor knows Gallifrey is out there, you'd think he'd put a bit more effort into trying to locate it?

a) because he was always so desperate to get to Gallifrey during the parts of the 38 years pre-nu-Who that didn't have I4n L3vine suggesting content

b) because every time he got involved with Gallifrey during Saward / L3vine it made for fascinating stories that really enriched the show and the character, not impossibly stupid and tedious nonsense, + collars

(obv Invasion Of Time was the damaging trendsetter there, but I grew up on the novelisation of it, so I can't hate it)

Pertinent to the thread title:

https://twitter.com/pigeonspotting/status/644658270448295936

NO SPOILERS

I'm inclined to think the Doctor recognising Maisie in the trailer is misdirection. She's in two episodes, the first being called 'The Girl Who Died', so we're obviously being set up to think she comes back from the dead. That's why the Doctor recognises her and looks dumbfounded. It could well mean she's a Timelord, but who knows. The usual Missy/Clara/Susan/Rani speculation is always good fun, but I'd be inclined to think they introduce a new character, albeit one who ties into Who-lore in a significant way.

Blimey, this starts tonight.

That was bobbins. (I'm aware that no Who show discussion can start until someone has proffered this opinion, so I'm willing to take the hit (but no, it was bobbins))

Tho I did wonder how many other people tuned in a few minutes earlier, stared confusedly at the upper middle aged portly gay couple on Celebrity Pointless, and then shouted "Fucking Hell, it's Hale and Pace!". I'd be a happier man if any part of Doctor Who was as surprising.

You're correct, it was bobbins.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/7ade0d67ac8ac4a3bdbb7716cbfffb91/tumblr_myv7siJVXv1rmwez8o5_r2_400.gif

RTD tribute ep, like The Power Of Three.

Power of Three was much better. Don't remember many RTD episodes this incoherent, which is saying something. Some good moments, sure, but a lot that was hectic, forced and embarrassing, and definitely too much old continuity bollocks for a first episode (speaking as someone who enjoys old continuity bollocks). Unusually for Doctor Who (even for bad episodes) I felt relieved when it was over.

Hey ho though - glad it's back. Looking back, Eleventh Hour and Impossible Astronaut have been the only good season openers, so dodgy starts don't necessarily herald a bad season. But can we skip to episode three next week?

Also, Brig's daughter reliably dull.

And guitar scene probably most cringeworthy thing since Tennant's marathon run.

Cluttered as fuck, but totally coherent.

I love Michelle Gomez.

sic otm.

it was like a yard sale for the first 2/3 but i dug the last part on (spoiler) with (spoiler)

i was ~almost~ ok with guitar cheese but the pretty woman riff made me want to kick in the tv

also i thought the whole medieval part was supposed to be a Vegas Excalibur/Medieval Times theme restaurant, i didnt realize it was *actually* meant to be medieval times, lol

i dont care how crap it gets though, i fuckin love capaldi-who

I thought this wildly out of character nonsense that worked well plotwise

Anything too scrazy for young tykes in this one?

I meant to type "scary" but actually "scrazy" is maybe more what I meant

Yeah the first five minutes are if you have access to a muddy field - that was good (but unconnected to the rest of the episode (oh lord Sarff's tour de space was tedious - did they blow the entire budget on the first episode?))

presumably buying him a swegway.

that was good (but unconnected to the rest of the episode

Except for setting up the cliffhanger, the hunt you disparage, the central conflict, and the Doctor's eventual onscreen behaviour and previous absenteeism

Also plenty of shows get by okay with pre-title sequences that ARE completely disconnected from the latter elements of the show. And this was great and creepy enough to have been worthwhile even it was disconnected.

Plus while you don't at all need to know it is in several ways a callback to the opening of Genesis Of The Daleks to appreciate it or follow this ep -- would you criticise that opening for being unconnected to the rest of ep 1, or the story as a whole?

anyway HEY TRACER HAND yeah that bit will spook the shit out of tinies, and there are some scary bits later too. But watch it with 'em and they'll be fine. Nightmares are healthy.

I don't think the previous absenteeism was explained? But I may have shoved skewers in my ears after Pretty Woman, the subtitles may have glossed over that bit.

I'm not sure what you're asking me about in the third panel? If it's the opening sequence of Genesis of the Daleks, I don't really remember it or have any views on it?

I do appreciate the sampled voiceovers exculpatory reminder that anything involving Davros (Genesis aside) has always been dull overwrought shite, though.

Always great to see how many of the Doctor's pivotal moments have been recorded by CCTV.

Thing I disliked most was the temporary 'killing' of Missy (again) and Clara. What's the point?

I feel like a lot of a Moff episodes start roaringly well and then you can literally point to the second where they fall apart. With this one it was the hashtag joke. With "Listen" he at least saved the awfulness until the very last minute. Which is why he's so frustrating, because when he fucks it up, you at least know he's *capable* of doing better, unlike the other writers.

Anyway - Capaldi and Coleman still great. Missy is reaching the "too much of a good thing" point for me.

Re: coherence - why was the planet invisible, and why did the Doctor walk into an obvious traps again - guilt alone? Presumably there were micro moments of dialogue to explain that (or maybe it'll be lampshaded into next week's episode) but I missed them. (I am slightly deaf mind.)

this was alright. very slightly disappointing. didn't mind the guitar bit. kind of sick of davros.

Viewers in their millions deserted Doctor Who as it returned to BBC One for a new series, according to overnight figures.

An average 4.6m watched Peter Capaldi back for his second series playing the Time Lord, compared with 6.8m for his full debut last year.

It was roundly beaten by ITV's X Factor, which had 7.3 million viewers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34307519

Aw, dammit. NO MORE SEXY DOCTORS

bound to be if ratings dont pick up

DW audience is increasingly likely to watch the show on demand, especially since it's been in a later timeslot. As-broadcast ratings don't mean much.

headlines like that can put people off though

They can?

IS THIS THE END FOR THE DOCTOR?

X Factor's catch-up will be negligible.

headlines like that can put people off though

The show has been running for ten years. British press have been running panicked "Doctor Who ratings are falling! The show is in danger!" stories for nine years.

haha longer than that

Hey guys amazing news! Despite no promotional blitz, being up against X-Factor, having to be pushed back to start after Strictly, no debuting new Doctor, and keeping the returning villain a secret, this goofy show for kids about a space wizard was the highest rated BBC programme for the day! And the second highest in the country at all!! And was the most-tweeted thing on Twitter!!!! And is the most popular programme on iPlayer today!!!!!

I was just thinking when watching the new episode earlier that when Missy gives Carla a set of choices as to which one is a lie and includes 'I knew him when he was a little girl' and wondered if it was a reference to who Masie Williams turns out to be,but think it may have already been said that she is supposed to be a new character. Also not sure he could cross his timeline just because he'd changed gender. THough the multiple Doctors episodes may put that to question anyway.

Also wondering when the start of the show is set, if the dying Davros is centuries old?
How long the war on Skaro had been? Seems to have been ancient at that point and Davros seems to be ancient in Genesis of the daleks at least. Not sure where that's set relative to other timelines anyway.
Also has the idea that the Thrals being thought of as a peaceful race been long since turned over? I know they started back in '63 as being represented as a semi angelically beautiful bunch of peaceful proto hippies, but I think there has been a story more recently that threw that into extreme question.

also thought did Davros retro engineer anything from being given a sonic screwdriver at that point?
I take it that the Doctor being sent back at the end of the episode is a change in the timeline, so Davros and screwdriver had to work out how to get out of the handmine field originally.

Also first thought on seeing the hands with the eyes in them was a parallel to the front attachment on a Dalek. Assume that's a conscious element in the design though.
Don't think it's Genesis of the Daleks, think it's something more recent.

Thals have not appeared on TV since 1975, at which point they were engaged in a war set several millennia earlier than their initial 1963 appearance, where they were angelic pacifists as a consequence of the thousand-year war.

I peaked at the first thread reactions before I watched the show, and as a result was rather pleasantly surprised. A bit muddled and weirdly paced (as is most WHO tbf), but all very entertaining as sic says, perfectly coherent (some slightly muddy motives aside*).

*Though I'm predicting the Doctor knows what he's doing and it will all be revealed to be his trap for the Daleks in part 2.

IMO that type of plotting would be more appropriate for 7

I don't really have a gripe with the story beyond feeling like it didn't really belong to 12; this would have been a great late-period 10 story, especially the "companionless" stories when he was trying to find himself.

This was fun. Didn't mind the guitar. Ending twist was cool. Man, how many times has the Doctor supposed to have died by now? Not even Clara is phased by it.

This wasn't very good... The first scene with Davros was cool, and the "search for the Doctor" bith that followed was a nice bit of continuity porn, but after having seen the whole episode it felt a bit stupid to waste so much of the episode for that part, when the actual important plot developments of the episode only came during the last 10 minutes, and as a result felt totally rushed. Also, was it really necessary to end the ep on cliffhanger with all these SHOCKING DEATHS, when absolutely everyone knows they'll be reversed the very next episode? Now obviously that's the case with most cliffhangers, but in this series they're a bit more creative than THE MAIN CHARACTERS EXPLODE, OH NO!

And the Medieval Guitar Hero thing was quite silly, but not good-silly, more like the sort of corny thing you'd expect to happen in Doctor Who if it was an American mainstream series, but it felt really out of place here. Actually, the whole scene (time-traveling rock star in Medieval times) reminded me of Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure... Maybe it even was an intentional nod? Regardless, they could've done without it.

A few stray questions that may or may not be answered the next episode:

* Didn't Davros die in season 4? Couldn't they have at least added a line of dialogue explaining how he survived? Well okay, Missy came back from death without an explanation too, but in her case it was already pretty obvious how she might've survived.

* In season 6 destroying the TARDIS made the whole universe implode. Here it gets destroyed too, but nothing like that happens?

* The Doctor is already responsible for countless deaths, right? So why would not saving one kid in the knowledge that he'll grow up to be Space Hitler be the one thing that makes the Doctor so ashamed he wants to die?

"in this series they're usually a bit more creative"

Radio Times saying Capaldi played the music in that scene himself XD XD XD

Torchwood is pretty good.

I like Tom Baker era Who which is a bit closer to current than Hartnell was. it's 10 years later and I think the difference in culture shows.
I think several of the recent Whos have cited Patrick Troughton as n influence. Unfortunately there's less of them than one would really like thanks to the BBC wiping old episodes. A couple of complete stories appeared in Africa a couple of years ago, though one episode of Web Of Fear the Yetis on the London Underground system story was nicked before it made it to the West.

Pertwee is also really good.

I don't really like the Davison era overmuch. I never really connected with the doctor and weird things happen with aliens costumes tahnks to lack of budget etc though i guess that might be a constant to the series, 2 people in a horse costume playing an alien seems to be an absolute nadir. having Linda Bellingham karate chopping the main alien in the same story seems about as bad.
Colin Baker was a decent actor who had some pretty naff scripts.
I like Sylvester Mccoy as an actor but again he had some decidedly naff stories though he did have a couple of semi decent ones.

I think Hartnell did have some pretty interesting stories, may have loosened up as he went along too.

There are a number of other British Science fiction series from the era too. Sapphire and Steel, Doomwatch, UFO to name a couple.

Torchwood: Children of Earth is the best Who-related program of the nu-Who era.

It's Ingrid Pitt that karate chops the Myrka.

Back end of Children of Earth is a bit of a mess imo, I think S2 is about as good as it got. Just never go near Torchwood: Giant Space Vagina.

oh man THAT one is the one where IMO the end just spectacularly falls apart

I might re-read that thread just to see us all say Giant Space Vagina repeatedly.

Torchwood is almost all terrible.

If you'd like a list of recommended stories from each Doctor for a newbie, that's been done a few times on the Who threads. Or I can just give you a correct list.

lol sic

Which Hartnell serials are interesting? I'm at The Sensorites (#7), and so far the only one I'd say was decent all the way through would be The Aztecs (although I have problems with its theme).

Sensorites is mostly pretty boring. Try The Time Meddler, or The Ark.

I have just read the Torchwood thread, which about 20% people going Giant Earth Vagina (mainly me), and have just lost my shit when Tuomas claims a paving slab can engage in consensual sex.

Wait, that's your problem with the scene? I thought that it was 'jokey'?

Great Hartnells:

The Daleks
The Time Meddler
The Aztecs
DIoE
The Romans

YMMV but I love:

Reign of Terror
Planet Of Giants
The Ark

My Love is inexplicable:

The Web Planet

I love Planet Of Giants so much

The Daleks isn't not meandering in fairness - there's an episode which is just hiking through caves, and another which is Ian trying to convince the Thals to punch him in the face (and Ian is very punchable).

It also suffers in modern viewing from the fact that it's called The Daleks and the cliffhanger at the end of the first episode is OMG it's a Dalek - a defect passed on in its DNA to every other Dalek story.

Dalek Invasion of Earth >>>> The Daleks

Glad you liked The Aztecs already. Sensorites would make a good four-parter.

Dalek Invasion is good (but the movie is paced better), first ep of Space Museum is great but bail out if you get bored during later eps, Time Meddler is fantastic, I love The Gunfighters and you might too if you don't break down crying with frustration if your children's TV show has the temerity to do a comedy story occasionally, instead of spacemen shooting laser guns. Never read or seen The Rescue and The Romans but they're probably good given the writers. The Tenth Planet is worth watching when you get there.

(if you can handle a recon or a narrated soundtrack, carry on into Troughton's Power Of The Daleks. There are no complete stories at all from his first season, though.)

You might want to move to the C or D thread.

Yeah, that's a better thread for this.

https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/838803941458608128

Stoked for Automated Bessie.

I hope they ignore "Attack of the Cybermen" and come up with an understandable explanation.

everybody should ignore "attack of the cybermen"