The flip side to that is that product can suffer. I hate to keep talking about Bell's but when they started expanding a few years ago (built a whole new brewing complex, started making some of their popular seasonal offerings year-round) a lot of the qualities that drew people to them in the first place suffered.
One that sticks out in my mind is Oberon -- it was a summer yeasty wheat ale, very easy to drink but with a flavor all its own that was unlike German hefes or Belgians or whatever. People used to count down to the day it would go on sale in stores and bars. Then they made it available year round and it lost those flavorful qualities. It got a lot lighter in body and blander in flavor.
This is only one example, of course. In my mind it's always kind of been like indie labels: you have your Merge, Sub Pop, and Touch & Go like Sierra Nevada, Red Hook, and Sam Adams... and then there are the smaller regional labels putting out noise bands and the smaller regional brewers experimenting with crazy ingredients or techniques.
tl;dr - shut up and drink
― open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:28 (fifteen years ago) link
I bet u label guys would hate 3 Floyd's
― open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:30 (fifteen years ago) link
disclaimer - i don't know shit about business
but for a relatively young industry (dogfish head and sam adams aren't old at all, compared with the big beer giants a la budweiser), i think they're doing fairly well, esp. considering the near-total market domination the beer giants have had since prohibition
― mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:31 (fifteen years ago) link
also - dogfish head for example has gained their success precisely by being over-the-top, crazy-ingredient beer nerds. not sure if that's a winning long-term business solution but i doubt they would be such a prominent beer label if they were traditional and/or classy
― mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:34 (fifteen years ago) link
wrong choice of words re: "classy" but you get my point
semi-interesting stats: http://www.beertown.org/craftbrewing/statistics.html
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:35 (fifteen years ago) link
I like Rogue's Bolshevik aesthetic.
Ska Brewing's labels seem a little too tacky/garish:http://www.viewpoints.com/images/review/2008/338/12/1228329158-37509_full.jpg
― Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:36 (fifteen years ago) link
totally agree with dan re: oberon--it was good the first year i tried it and then the next yeah it was kinda bland
so otm! gumball head has the nastiest label (reminds me of those skin graft records back in the day) but man is it good.
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:37 (fifteen years ago) link
also, is it even reasonable to think that the mass market bud-miller-coors "regular beer consumer" is going to open up to microbrews? IMO they might have a better shot going for the upmarket wine/fancy spirits consumer, cutting into that market, then trying to compete w/ budweiser
― mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:37 (fifteen years ago) link
i wish more microbreweries were as experimental as dogfish head. most of them are content pumping out IPAs.
any recs for a really interesting micro brand?
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:38 (fifteen years ago) link
For all its success, craft beer has yet to reach the mainstream. Ninety-six per cent of the market—about sixty-seven billion bottles a year—still belongs to non-craft beers and imports. Oliver remembers talking to a brewer at Anheuser-Busch a few years ago, when sales of Michelob had fallen to about a third of a billion bottles a year. “He told me, ‘I wish that brand would just die.’ And that one beer was the size of the entire American craft-brewing industry.” The disparity is partly a function of poor marketing, Ogle argues—craft brewers are still preaching to the converted—and partly of cultural conditioning. Until more Americans wean themselves from ketchup, soda, and other sweet foods, they may never enjoy the taste of hops. “When I talk to people like Sam, I’m constantly amazed at how persuaded they are that everyone drinks craft beer,” she says. “If that’s true, why are they still sitting at four per cent?”
In a decade’s time, Oliver believes, breweries like his could claim a quarter of the market. (Paul Gatza, director of the Brewers Association, predicts something closer to ten per cent in twenty years.) But only if they don’t scare people off first. “The whole idea of extreme beer is bad for craft brewing,” Oliver says. “It doesn’t expand the tent—it shrinks it. If I want someone to taste a beer, and I make it sound outlandish and crazy, there is a certain kind of person who will say, ‘Oh, let me try it.’ But that is a small audience. It’s one that you can build a beer on, but not a movement.”
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/11/24/081124fa_fact_bilger?currentPage=all
otm imo fwiw
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:38 (fifteen years ago) link
Huh, I didn't know that Magic Hat had acquired Pyramid.
― Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:41 (fifteen years ago) link
xp true, but why is dogfish maxed out? mostly because of 60-minute IPA, a solid mainstream IPA that lots of people like (and gives them license to brew all their weirdo shit). i would really be curious about actual instances of craft brewers "scaring people off."
when people talk about a craft brewer going mainstream, the result is sam adams. which is fine, but i'm not sure if it's "better" than the model they have now except from a moneymaking standpoint.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:43 (fifteen years ago) link
xxp that is of course assuming that craft brewers want to grow that big
― open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:43 (fifteen years ago) link
I mean, Larry Bell stopped selling beer in IL, his home state, because his distributor wasn't going to sell any but his top 4 popular brands.
― open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:44 (fifteen years ago) link
right and i would assume this industry attracts a lot of guys who want a small-ish environment where they have a lot of control, make some money, pay good salaries/benefits to maybe 10-15 people, and live very contentedly. not sure there's much killer instinct in microbrew world.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:45 (fifteen years ago) link
^^^this
― open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:46 (fifteen years ago) link
addendum--which is in total contrast to their evangelizing tendencies but if you want to brew beer for a living you might be a little weird anyway
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:46 (fifteen years ago) link
Do Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, and Red Hook count as microbrews? It's pretty hard to find a bar around here that doesn't sell those beers.
― Your heartbeat soun like sasquatch feet (polyphonic), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:46 (fifteen years ago) link
i agree w/ NYer quote in many ways
but take sam adams for instance. straightforward, "grown-up", all-american, nothing quite extreme about them. IMO there's really nothing that's altogether that convincing about sam adams to make an everyday-average-beer-drinker change over from their budweiser or miller.
― mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:46 (fifteen years ago) link
some of these bros must have grand ambitions
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:47 (fifteen years ago) link
sam adams is boring imo, also their cherry wheat is the worst beer i have ever had
― hello my name is peter francis geraci are you in debt (omar little), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:47 (fifteen years ago) link
also they all have big beards
xps I would say yes, or at least "independent" in that they're not owned by Parmalat or whatever company just bought A-B.
― open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:48 (fifteen years ago) link
red hook was owned by anheuser-busch, not sure if that is still true. sierra and sam are both too big for the micro category. but both started small and are probably not going to grow much more (having been around for 30+ years)
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:49 (fifteen years ago) link
a couple of my faves from Europe at the moment - if you see them I can't recommend them highly enough:
http://www.freebase.com/api/trans/image_thumb//guid/9202a8c04000641f8000000008ddef69?maxheight=560&mode=fit&maxwidth=280
from North East France - a really underrated beer region, crazy considering it's basically Flemish like lots of the great Belgians
such as:
http://www.brasseriedelasenne.be/images/zinnebir.jpg
and how's that for a cool label? The de la senne beers are all great and all fantastically labelled.
― problem chimp (Porkpie), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:49 (fifteen years ago) link
yea, more or less. i think there is a technical distinction w/ regard to the term "microbrew" but they really have a lot more in common w/ ur average microbrewery than they do w/ anheuser-busch, i.e. they are really pretty small compared w/ the market kings
― mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:49 (fifteen years ago) link
most sam is boring but sam summer is fuckin tight imo
btw for mark cl: fun midwest micros
Bell's (stan)3 Floyd'sGreat LakesFounder'sAtwater Block (newbs outta Detroit)
― open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:49 (fifteen years ago) link
k according to biz journal A-B owns 35% of red hook.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:50 (fifteen years ago) link
(point taken re: red hook & AB) xp
― mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:50 (fifteen years ago) link
wow, news to me
― open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:51 (fifteen years ago) link
yea great lakes is my all-time top brewery maybe next to bell's, & founders is fuckin great- xp
― mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:51 (fifteen years ago) link
time to go exercise so i can watch the celtics and drink mad beerz tonite.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:52 (fifteen years ago) link
destroyer u in MA?
― mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:55 (fifteen years ago) link
(celtics?)
― mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:56 (fifteen years ago) link
already exercised so I can watch the Nats and drink mad beerz tonite.
― open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:57 (fifteen years ago) link
Dan, have you had Half Acre Over Ale yet? I wasn't that thrilled with their debut lager, but lagers don't thrill me in general. But the brewery is like four blocks from my apartment, so I want to support them. The Over Ale was on the menu at Tiny Lounge last weekend, but they were out.
― Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:59 (fifteen years ago) link
I can't remember which one I tried, but I think it was the lager. I'm with you on both points, wanting to support them and not being totally thrilled. There's a rumor they might start sponsoring my soccer group, which would be pretty fucking awesome imo.
― open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 21:02 (fifteen years ago) link
The Over Ale is much much better than the Lager, though I also don't really dig lagers so much anyway. But, yeah, I bought a six pack of the ale a couple of weeks ago and it wasn't the best beer ever but would buy again.
I really didn't enjoy the beer I had from the other new brewery in the hood, Metropolitan.
― Dr. Johnson (askance johnson), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 21:04 (fifteen years ago) link
Oh, I didn't realize Metropolitan was up and running already.
― Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 21:06 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah, they have it at Hopleaf, at least.
― Dr. Johnson (askance johnson), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 21:07 (fifteen years ago) link
Nice. After glancing at their website, it seems like I'd probably enjoy their line of beers more when it gets warmer out.
― Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 21:10 (fifteen years ago) link
hey mark yeah i'm in boston.
picked up some pilsner urquell on the way home in honor of icey. this:
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/05/miller_products/image/pilsner.jpg
is a goddamn label.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 23:37 (fifteen years ago) link
I went to a liquor store outside of my 'hood tonight and they had a whole cooler full of 3 Floyds' 22oz bottles, including one of these for the label police:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2400/2659011120_fa01a066f4.jpg
― open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Thursday, 2 April 2009 00:50 (fifteen years ago) link
omg that label is terrifying
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 2 April 2009 00:54 (fifteen years ago) link
wau
― mark cl, Thursday, 2 April 2009 01:00 (fifteen years ago) link
speaking of designs, i love the silk-screened bottles a la rogue:
http://web.mit.edu/~tcarlile/www/images/blog/354roguechipotle.jpghttp://farm1.static.flickr.com/179/371479782_c4ad50733d.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3282/2637472443_ebc585741c_o.jpg
― mark cl, Thursday, 2 April 2009 01:06 (fifteen years ago) link
Yup, I mentioned those upthread.
― Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Thursday, 2 April 2009 01:39 (fifteen years ago) link
from brewer's association http://www.beertown.org/ba/media_2009/Top_50_Release.html
TOP 50 CRAFT BREWING COMPANIES BY BEER SALES VOLUME (BASED ON 2008 SALES)
1 Boston Beer Co. Boston MA2 Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. Chico CA3 New Belgium Brewing Co. Fort Collins CO4 Spoetzl Brewery Shiner TX5 Pyramid Breweries Inc. Seattle WA6 Deschutes Brewery Bend OR7 Matt Brewing Co. Utica NY8 Boulevard Brewing Co. Kansas City MO9 Full Sail Brewing Co. Hood River OR10 Magic Hat Brewing Co. Burlington VT11 Alaskan Brewing Co. Juneau AK12 Harpoon Brewery Boston MA13 Bell's Brewery, Inc. Galesburg MI14 Kona Brewing Co. Kailua-Kona HI15 Anchor Brewing Co. San Francisco CA16 Shipyard Brewing Co. Portland ME17 Summit Brewing Co. Saint Paul MN18 Stone Brewing Co. Escondido CA19 Abita Brewing Co. Abita Springs LA20 The Brooklyn Brewery Brooklyn NY21 New Glarus Brewing Co. New Glarus WI22 Dogfish Head Craft Brewery Milton DE23 Long Trail Brewing Co. Bridgewater Corners VT24 Gordon Biersch Brewing Co. San Jose CA25 Rogue Ales/Oregon Brewing Co. Newport OR26 Great Lakes Brewing Co. Cleveland OH27 The Lagunitas Brewing Co. Petaluma CA28 Firestone Walker Brewing Co. Paso Robles CA29 SweetWater Brewing Co. Atlanta GA30 Flying Dog Brewing Co. Frederick MD31 BJ's Restaurant & Brewery Huntington Beach CA32 Rock Bottom Brewery Restaurants Louisville CO33 BridgePort Brewing Co. Portland OR34 Odell Brewing Co. Fort Collins CO35 Victory Brewing Co. Downingtown PA36 Mac and Jack's Brewery Redmond WA37 Big Sky Brewing Co. Missoula MT38 Gordon Biersch Brewery Restaurants Chattanooga TN39 Karl Strauss Brewing Co. San Diego CA40 Breckenridge Brewery Denver CO41 Lost Coast Brewery and Cafe Eureka CA42 Otter Creek Brewing Co. Middlebury VT43 Utah Brewers Cooperative Salt Lake City UT44 North Coast Brewing Co. Fort Bragg CA45 Blue Point Brewing Co. Patchogue NY46 Boulder Beer Co. Boulder CO47 Pete's Brewing Co. San Antonio TX48 McMenamins Breweries Portland OR49 Anderson Valley Brewing Co. Boonville CA50 The Saint Louis Brewery, Inc. St Louis MO
― mark cl, Tuesday, 14 April 2009 13:50 (fifteen years ago) link
here's overall rankings: (ha, the first 3 represent like 95% of the market)
TOP 50 OVERALL BREWING COMPANIES BY BEER SALES VOLUME (BASED ON 2008 SALES)
1 Anheuser-Busch InBev St. Louis MO2 MillerCoors Brewing Co. Chicago IL3 Pabst Brewing Co. Woodridge IL4 Boston Beer Co. Boston MA5 D. G. Yuengling and Son Inc. Pottsville PA6 Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. Chico CA7 Craft Brewers Alliance, Inc. Woodinville WA8 New Belgium Brewing Co. Fort Collins CO9 High Falls Brewing Co. Rochester NY10 Spoetzl Brewery Shiner TX11 Pyramid Breweries Inc. Seattle WA12 Deschutes Brewery Bend OR13 Iron City Brewing Co. Pittsburgh PA14 Minhas Craft Brewery Monroe WI15 Matt Brewing Co. Utica NY16 Boulevard Brewing Co. Kansas City MO17 Full Sail Brewing Co. Hood River OR18 Magic Hat Brewing Co. Burlington VT19 Alaskan Brewing Co. Juneau AK20 Harpoon Brewery Boston MA21 Bell's Brewery, Inc. Galesburg MI22 Goose Island Beer Co. Chicago IL23 Kona Brewery LLC Kailua-Kona HI24 Anchor Brewing Co. San Francisco CA25 August Schell Brewing Co. New Ulm MN26 Shipyard Brewing Portland ME27 Summit Brewing Co. Saint Paul MN28 Stone Brewing Co. Escondido CA29 Mendocino Brewing Co. Ukiah CA30 Abita Brewing Co., L.L.C. Abita Springs LA31 The Brooklyn Brewery Brooklyn NY32 New Glarus Brewing Co. New Glarus WI33 Dogfish Head Craft Brewery Milton DE34 Long Trail Brewing Co. Bridgewater Corners VT35 Gordon Biersch Brewing Co. San Jose CA36 Rogue Ales/Oregon Brewing Co. Newport OR37 Great Lakes Brewing Co. Cleveland OH38 The Lagunitas Brewing Co. Petaluma CA39 Firestone Walker Brewing Co. Paso Robles CA40 SweetWater Brewing Co. Atlanta GA41 Flying Dog Brewing Co. Frederick MD42 BJ's Restaurant & Brewery Huntington Beach CA43 Rock Bottom Brewery Restaurants Louisville CO44 BridgePort Brewing Co. Portland OR45 Odell Brewing Co. Fort Collins CO46 Victory Brewing Co. Downingtown PA47 Straub Brewery Saint Marys PA48 Cold Spring Brewing Co. Cold Spring MN49 Mac and Jack's Brewery Redmond WA50 Big Sky Brewing Co. Missoula MT
― mark cl, Tuesday, 14 April 2009 13:52 (fifteen years ago) link