Beer in the new era

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The flip side to that is that product can suffer. I hate to keep talking about Bell's but when they started expanding a few years ago (built a whole new brewing complex, started making some of their popular seasonal offerings year-round) a lot of the qualities that drew people to them in the first place suffered.

One that sticks out in my mind is Oberon -- it was a summer yeasty wheat ale, very easy to drink but with a flavor all its own that was unlike German hefes or Belgians or whatever. People used to count down to the day it would go on sale in stores and bars. Then they made it available year round and it lost those flavorful qualities. It got a lot lighter in body and blander in flavor.

This is only one example, of course. In my mind it's always kind of been like indie labels: you have your Merge, Sub Pop, and Touch & Go like Sierra Nevada, Red Hook, and Sam Adams... and then there are the smaller regional labels putting out noise bands and the smaller regional brewers experimenting with crazy ingredients or techniques.

tl;dr - shut up and drink

open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:28 (fifteen years ago) link

I bet u label guys would hate 3 Floyd's

open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:30 (fifteen years ago) link

disclaimer - i don't know shit about business

but for a relatively young industry (dogfish head and sam adams aren't old at all, compared with the big beer giants a la budweiser), i think they're doing fairly well, esp. considering the near-total market domination the beer giants have had since prohibition

mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:31 (fifteen years ago) link

also - dogfish head for example has gained their success precisely by being over-the-top, crazy-ingredient beer nerds. not sure if that's a winning long-term business solution but i doubt they would be such a prominent beer label if they were traditional and/or classy

mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:34 (fifteen years ago) link

wrong choice of words re: "classy" but you get my point

mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:34 (fifteen years ago) link

semi-interesting stats: http://www.beertown.org/craftbrewing/statistics.html

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:35 (fifteen years ago) link

I like Rogue's Bolshevik aesthetic.

Ska Brewing's labels seem a little too tacky/garish:
http://www.viewpoints.com/images/review/2008/338/12/1228329158-37509_full.jpg

Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:36 (fifteen years ago) link

totally agree with dan re: oberon--it was good the first year i tried it and then the next yeah it was kinda bland

I bet u label guys would hate 3 Floyd's

so otm! gumball head has the nastiest label (reminds me of those skin graft records back in the day) but man is it good.

Mr. Que, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:37 (fifteen years ago) link

also, is it even reasonable to think that the mass market bud-miller-coors "regular beer consumer" is going to open up to microbrews? IMO they might have a better shot going for the upmarket wine/fancy spirits consumer, cutting into that market, then trying to compete w/ budweiser

mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:37 (fifteen years ago) link

i wish more microbreweries were as experimental as dogfish head. most of them are content pumping out IPAs.

any recs for a really interesting micro brand?

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:38 (fifteen years ago) link

For all its success, craft beer has yet to reach the mainstream. Ninety-six per cent of the market—about sixty-seven billion bottles a year—still belongs to non-craft beers and imports. Oliver remembers talking to a brewer at Anheuser-Busch a few years ago, when sales of Michelob had fallen to about a third of a billion bottles a year. “He told me, ‘I wish that brand would just die.’ And that one beer was the size of the entire American craft-brewing industry.” The disparity is partly a function of poor marketing, Ogle argues—craft brewers are still preaching to the converted—and partly of cultural conditioning. Until more Americans wean themselves from ketchup, soda, and other sweet foods, they may never enjoy the taste of hops. “When I talk to people like Sam, I’m constantly amazed at how persuaded they are that everyone drinks craft beer,” she says. “If that’s true, why are they still sitting at four per cent?”

In a decade’s time, Oliver believes, breweries like his could claim a quarter of the market. (Paul Gatza, director of the Brewers Association, predicts something closer to ten per cent in twenty years.) But only if they don’t scare people off first. “The whole idea of extreme beer is bad for craft brewing,” Oliver says. “It doesn’t expand the tent—it shrinks it. If I want someone to taste a beer, and I make it sound outlandish and crazy, there is a certain kind of person who will say, ‘Oh, let me try it.’ But that is a small audience. It’s one that you can build a beer on, but not a movement.”

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/11/24/081124fa_fact_bilger?currentPage=all

otm imo fwiw

ice cr?m, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:38 (fifteen years ago) link

Huh, I didn't know that Magic Hat had acquired Pyramid.

Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:41 (fifteen years ago) link

xp true, but why is dogfish maxed out? mostly because of 60-minute IPA, a solid mainstream IPA that lots of people like (and gives them license to brew all their weirdo shit). i would really be curious about actual instances of craft brewers "scaring people off."

when people talk about a craft brewer going mainstream, the result is sam adams. which is fine, but i'm not sure if it's "better" than the model they have now except from a moneymaking standpoint.

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:43 (fifteen years ago) link

xxp that is of course assuming that craft brewers want to grow that big

open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:43 (fifteen years ago) link

I mean, Larry Bell stopped selling beer in IL, his home state, because his distributor wasn't going to sell any but his top 4 popular brands.

open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:44 (fifteen years ago) link

right and i would assume this industry attracts a lot of guys who want a small-ish environment where they have a lot of control, make some money, pay good salaries/benefits to maybe 10-15 people, and live very contentedly. not sure there's much killer instinct in microbrew world.

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:45 (fifteen years ago) link

^^^this

open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:46 (fifteen years ago) link

addendum--which is in total contrast to their evangelizing tendencies but if you want to brew beer for a living you might be a little weird anyway

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:46 (fifteen years ago) link

Do Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, and Red Hook count as microbrews? It's pretty hard to find a bar around here that doesn't sell those beers.

Your heartbeat soun like sasquatch feet (polyphonic), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:46 (fifteen years ago) link

i agree w/ NYer quote in many ways

but take sam adams for instance. straightforward, "grown-up", all-american, nothing quite extreme about them. IMO there's really nothing that's altogether that convincing about sam adams to make an everyday-average-beer-drinker change over from their budweiser or miller.

mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:46 (fifteen years ago) link

some of these bros must have grand ambitions

ice cr?m, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:47 (fifteen years ago) link

sam adams is boring imo, also their cherry wheat is the worst beer i have ever had

hello my name is peter francis geraci are you in debt (omar little), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:47 (fifteen years ago) link

also they all have big beards

xps I would say yes, or at least "independent" in that they're not owned by Parmalat or whatever company just bought A-B.

open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:48 (fifteen years ago) link

red hook was owned by anheuser-busch, not sure if that is still true. sierra and sam are both too big for the micro category. but both started small and are probably not going to grow much more (having been around for 30+ years)

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:49 (fifteen years ago) link

a couple of my faves from Europe at the moment - if you see them I can't recommend them highly enough:

http://www.freebase.com/api/trans/image_thumb//guid/9202a8c04000641f8000000008ddef69?maxheight=560&mode=fit&maxwidth=280

from North East France - a really underrated beer region, crazy considering it's basically Flemish like lots of the great Belgians

such as:

http://www.brasseriedelasenne.be/images/zinnebir.jpg

and how's that for a cool label? The de la senne beers are all great and all fantastically labelled.

problem chimp (Porkpie), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:49 (fifteen years ago) link

Do Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, and Red Hook count as microbrews? It's pretty hard to find a bar around here that doesn't sell those beers.

yea, more or less. i think there is a technical distinction w/ regard to the term "microbrew" but they really have a lot more in common w/ ur average microbrewery than they do w/ anheuser-busch, i.e. they are really pretty small compared w/ the market kings

mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:49 (fifteen years ago) link

most sam is boring but sam summer is fuckin tight imo

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:49 (fifteen years ago) link

btw for mark cl: fun midwest micros

Bell's (stan)
3 Floyd's
Great Lakes
Founder's
Atwater Block (newbs outta Detroit)

open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:49 (fifteen years ago) link

k according to biz journal A-B owns 35% of red hook.

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:50 (fifteen years ago) link

(point taken re: red hook & AB) xp

mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:50 (fifteen years ago) link

wow, news to me

open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:51 (fifteen years ago) link

yea great lakes is my all-time top brewery maybe next to bell's, & founders is fuckin great- xp

mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:51 (fifteen years ago) link

time to go exercise so i can watch the celtics and drink mad beerz tonite.

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:52 (fifteen years ago) link

destroyer u in MA?

mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:55 (fifteen years ago) link

(celtics?)

mark cl, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:56 (fifteen years ago) link

already exercised so I can watch the Nats and drink mad beerz tonite.

open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:57 (fifteen years ago) link

Dan, have you had Half Acre Over Ale yet? I wasn't that thrilled with their debut lager, but lagers don't thrill me in general. But the brewery is like four blocks from my apartment, so I want to support them. The Over Ale was on the menu at Tiny Lounge last weekend, but they were out.

Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 20:59 (fifteen years ago) link

I can't remember which one I tried, but I think it was the lager. I'm with you on both points, wanting to support them and not being totally thrilled. There's a rumor they might start sponsoring my soccer group, which would be pretty fucking awesome imo.

open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 21:02 (fifteen years ago) link

The Over Ale is much much better than the Lager, though I also don't really dig lagers so much anyway. But, yeah, I bought a six pack of the ale a couple of weeks ago and it wasn't the best beer ever but would buy again.

I really didn't enjoy the beer I had from the other new brewery in the hood, Metropolitan.

Dr. Johnson (askance johnson), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 21:04 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh, I didn't realize Metropolitan was up and running already.

Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 21:06 (fifteen years ago) link

yeah, they have it at Hopleaf, at least.

Dr. Johnson (askance johnson), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 21:07 (fifteen years ago) link

Nice. After glancing at their website, it seems like I'd probably enjoy their line of beers more when it gets warmer out.

Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 21:10 (fifteen years ago) link

hey mark yeah i'm in boston.

picked up some pilsner urquell on the way home in honor of icey. this:

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/05/miller_products/image/pilsner.jpg

is a goddamn label.

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 April 2009 23:37 (fifteen years ago) link

I went to a liquor store outside of my 'hood tonight and they had a whole cooler full of 3 Floyds' 22oz bottles, including one of these for the label police:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2400/2659011120_fa01a066f4.jpg

open up a cat of whup-ass (dan m), Thursday, 2 April 2009 00:50 (fifteen years ago) link

omg that label is terrifying

call all destroyer, Thursday, 2 April 2009 00:54 (fifteen years ago) link

wau

mark cl, Thursday, 2 April 2009 01:00 (fifteen years ago) link

Yup, I mentioned those upthread.

Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Thursday, 2 April 2009 01:39 (fifteen years ago) link

from brewer's association http://www.beertown.org/ba/media_2009/Top_50_Release.html

TOP 50 CRAFT BREWING COMPANIES BY BEER SALES VOLUME
(BASED ON 2008 SALES)

1 Boston Beer Co. Boston MA
2 Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. Chico CA
3 New Belgium Brewing Co. Fort Collins CO
4 Spoetzl Brewery Shiner TX
5 Pyramid Breweries Inc. Seattle WA
6 Deschutes Brewery Bend OR
7 Matt Brewing Co. Utica NY
8 Boulevard Brewing Co. Kansas City MO
9 Full Sail Brewing Co. Hood River OR
10 Magic Hat Brewing Co. Burlington VT
11 Alaskan Brewing Co. Juneau AK
12 Harpoon Brewery Boston MA
13 Bell's Brewery, Inc. Galesburg MI
14 Kona Brewing Co. Kailua-Kona HI
15 Anchor Brewing Co. San Francisco CA
16 Shipyard Brewing Co. Portland ME
17 Summit Brewing Co. Saint Paul MN
18 Stone Brewing Co. Escondido CA
19 Abita Brewing Co. Abita Springs LA
20 The Brooklyn Brewery Brooklyn NY
21 New Glarus Brewing Co. New Glarus WI
22 Dogfish Head Craft Brewery Milton DE
23 Long Trail Brewing Co. Bridgewater Corners VT
24 Gordon Biersch Brewing Co. San Jose CA
25 Rogue Ales/Oregon Brewing Co. Newport OR
26 Great Lakes Brewing Co. Cleveland OH
27 The Lagunitas Brewing Co. Petaluma CA
28 Firestone Walker Brewing Co. Paso Robles CA
29 SweetWater Brewing Co. Atlanta GA
30 Flying Dog Brewing Co. Frederick MD
31 BJ's Restaurant & Brewery Huntington Beach CA
32 Rock Bottom Brewery Restaurants Louisville CO
33 BridgePort Brewing Co. Portland OR
34 Odell Brewing Co. Fort Collins CO
35 Victory Brewing Co. Downingtown PA
36 Mac and Jack's Brewery Redmond WA
37 Big Sky Brewing Co. Missoula MT
38 Gordon Biersch Brewery Restaurants Chattanooga TN
39 Karl Strauss Brewing Co. San Diego CA
40 Breckenridge Brewery Denver CO
41 Lost Coast Brewery and Cafe Eureka CA
42 Otter Creek Brewing Co. Middlebury VT
43 Utah Brewers Cooperative Salt Lake City UT
44 North Coast Brewing Co. Fort Bragg CA
45 Blue Point Brewing Co. Patchogue NY
46 Boulder Beer Co. Boulder CO
47 Pete's Brewing Co. San Antonio TX
48 McMenamins Breweries Portland OR
49 Anderson Valley Brewing Co. Boonville CA
50 The Saint Louis Brewery, Inc. St Louis MO

mark cl, Tuesday, 14 April 2009 13:50 (fifteen years ago) link

here's overall rankings: (ha, the first 3 represent like 95% of the market)

TOP 50 OVERALL BREWING COMPANIES BY BEER SALES VOLUME
(BASED ON 2008 SALES)

1 Anheuser-Busch InBev St. Louis MO
2 MillerCoors Brewing Co. Chicago IL
3 Pabst Brewing Co. Woodridge IL
4 Boston Beer Co. Boston MA
5 D. G. Yuengling and Son Inc. Pottsville PA
6 Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. Chico CA
7 Craft Brewers Alliance, Inc. Woodinville WA
8 New Belgium Brewing Co. Fort Collins CO
9 High Falls Brewing Co. Rochester NY
10 Spoetzl Brewery Shiner TX
11 Pyramid Breweries Inc. Seattle WA
12 Deschutes Brewery Bend OR
13 Iron City Brewing Co. Pittsburgh PA
14 Minhas Craft Brewery Monroe WI
15 Matt Brewing Co. Utica NY
16 Boulevard Brewing Co. Kansas City MO
17 Full Sail Brewing Co. Hood River OR
18 Magic Hat Brewing Co. Burlington VT
19 Alaskan Brewing Co. Juneau AK
20 Harpoon Brewery Boston MA
21 Bell's Brewery, Inc. Galesburg MI
22 Goose Island Beer Co. Chicago IL
23 Kona Brewery LLC Kailua-Kona HI
24 Anchor Brewing Co. San Francisco CA
25 August Schell Brewing Co. New Ulm MN
26 Shipyard Brewing Portland ME
27 Summit Brewing Co. Saint Paul MN
28 Stone Brewing Co. Escondido CA
29 Mendocino Brewing Co. Ukiah CA
30 Abita Brewing Co., L.L.C. Abita Springs LA
31 The Brooklyn Brewery Brooklyn NY
32 New Glarus Brewing Co. New Glarus WI
33 Dogfish Head Craft Brewery Milton DE
34 Long Trail Brewing Co. Bridgewater Corners VT
35 Gordon Biersch Brewing Co. San Jose CA
36 Rogue Ales/Oregon Brewing Co. Newport OR
37 Great Lakes Brewing Co. Cleveland OH
38 The Lagunitas Brewing Co. Petaluma CA
39 Firestone Walker Brewing Co. Paso Robles CA
40 SweetWater Brewing Co. Atlanta GA
41 Flying Dog Brewing Co. Frederick MD
42 BJ's Restaurant & Brewery Huntington Beach CA
43 Rock Bottom Brewery Restaurants Louisville CO
44 BridgePort Brewing Co. Portland OR
45 Odell Brewing Co. Fort Collins CO
46 Victory Brewing Co. Downingtown PA
47 Straub Brewery Saint Marys PA
48 Cold Spring Brewing Co. Cold Spring MN
49 Mac and Jack's Brewery Redmond WA
50 Big Sky Brewing Co. Missoula MT

mark cl, Tuesday, 14 April 2009 13:52 (fifteen years ago) link


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