Camille Paglia: Dud or Dudder ?

never say never i guess

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3176293/Woman-accused-Bill-Clinton-sexual-harassment-launches-anti-Hillary-website-recruit-victims-chronicle-scandal-day.html

ha goole otm

The media and the culture were extremely different in the 90s, like comparing apples to holograms of oranges

Every generation thinks they are the first to discover sex - and political scandals.

Things were in no way totally different in the 90s, you little rascal. Or are you talking about the 1890s? I'm not sure that would work either.

You don't think social media has changed how people read the news and which stories gain traction?

It's just a different news delivery system. Any story that has "gained traction" lately I could probably find several similar 80s-90s stories that also "gained traction" - and for the same basic reasons: sex, violence, moral outrage, spin, & did I mention sex?

I guess I don't want these cases to be re-opened bc i don't want a Republican president. But I also don't have much love for the crypto-conservative Clintons so w/e. I have no trouble believing the worst about that dude.

They already got Bill Clinton. It involved a stained dress. They got him as much as they are ever going to get him.

It took years of concerted and mostly failed effort to pin something on him. I remember when the stained dress emerged, I was like, oh my god, finally, they found something. And they made the most of it.

They managed to turn impeachment into a partisan joke. Why did this happen? Because everybody knew that they had spent forever finding it, had done nothing else but look.

By the way, Hitchens attitude on Bill Clinton was merely the first indication he was actually crazy. I'm no Clinton fan, but I did once really admire Hitchens, having read a bunch of his articles in Harpers during their great period (late 80s to late 90s).

So long as Hitchens kept to Clinton's fiscal and socialpolitical calamities ("welfare reform," the crime bill, DOMA) he was in peak form. If you want to read his Clinton book, stick to those chapters.

Oh, Clinton is despicable on that stuff -- does Hitchens make the case particularly well, given that I've seen it many times elsewhere?

Since you're here Alfred, I'll mention the attack on Norman Podhoretz that CH did is just one of the great jugular knifings ever - did you ever read that one?

Hey, back to Paglia, I was one of those people who bought Sexual Personae when it came out and thought it was really interesting. Speaking of Harpers, they thought she was interesting too....then they had to backtrack. I'm going to hide behind Greil Marcus and Harold Bloom now.....um, those guys thought she was okay, don't blame me!

I don't want to review the horror of those times, but let's not forget how Ken Starr's Whitewater panel transformed into a Starr Chamber when the Paula Jones lawsuit joined forces with it as if they weren't already one and the same (the first independent counsel, Republican Robert Fiske, was treated curtly when in 1994 he found nothing illegal in the Clintons' bungled cattle futures trading). Then there were the leaks to the press, the manipulation of a moronic Newsweek reporter who couldn't see that Linda Tripp had been hanging around Starr's office bringing witnesses since 1993, the SCOTUS decision (for which, regrettably, John Paul Stevens showed no remorse years later) affirming that a sitting president had no immunity against civil actions (I don't oppose the ruling in theory, but the facts dictated that the Court tailor this decision as narrowly as possible).

treeship can you explain what you mean by "crypto-conservative" here bc afaik the clintons are kind of completely wysiwyg?

secretly conservative. bill's record is atrocious, from the "welfare reform" to the crime bill to the trade agreements to DOMA and beyond

I suppose it might be "secret" to those who imagine Democrats are what they have not been for quite some time now?

Kind of a big selling point in his view.

bill was pretty open about his not-liberalness -- he ran as a "new democrat," promised to "end welfare as we know it," was a former DLC chair, and was fairly hawkish.

alfred, do you know of a good book on the clinton impeachment fiasco?

yes right I understand what u mean by "crypto" but I'm not sure what you believe is being concealed

alfred, do you know of a good book on the clinton impeachment fiasco?

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.)

Ignore the title: http://www.amazon.com/The-Death-American-Virtue-Clinton/dp/0307409457

roger, she is concealing it from some people. facebook friends post pro-hillary things alongside articles that bemoan inequality and the militarization of the police, as if hillary's legacy is of having resisted these things. i think she gave a speech in ferguson that people were impressed with. the "new democrat" schtick wouldn't land anymore so clinton is remembered -- dimly of course by my generation -- as simply a democrat/progressive imo.

i think people of mine & treesh's generation who became politically aware during gwb presidency were kind of vaguely scooted towards the impression that clinton was a really good liberal president, like idk ppl didn't really tell you "you know bush is awful but bill clinton wasn't so hot either" and teach you about welfare reform and i only became aware of that reputation later in college, like when i was a teenager the only bad thing i knew about him was that he got a beej, which i thought was hilarious

anyways the democratic party is moving left, even if at a glacial pace & whatever her personal politics or history hillary's economic platform will reflect that

No one talked about Clinton-era policy because the media was trained to regard neoliberalism as gospel, and lots of pundits were stupid enough to think 2000-era Bush drivel about compassionate conservatism represented a genuine, uh, compassionate break from the '90s (and the economy really was booming from '97-'01).

People were too busy making money (dotcom boom!) to notice how shitty bubba was, plus his enemies were significantly worse

when we say he was a shitty prez, who are we comparing him to?

there needn't be a comparator. anyone to the left of joe lieberman can look at his record and find it wanting

the democratic party is moving left

still don't see it, email Senate leader Chuck Schumer about it next term

where the hell are Hil's female lovers, that's what me n' Camille wanna know

there needn't be a comparator. anyone to the left of joe lieberman can look at his record and find it wanting

well, yeah

but someone [who is not ralph nader] has to be president. maybe we need a poll

oh you're one of those

lol

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/227359/camille-paglia-jews-and-feminism

apparently paglia voted for sanders in the primaries and stein in the general

thought I was losing my mind. there's more than one thread on her that got updated today. WHY
also BRING BACK SEARCH?

Camille Paglia

So, good for the Jews. xp

As for Trump and his oafishly loose words, liberal Democratic women have been in serious mauvaise foi in their ceaseless attacks on him, given the sycophantish pass they gave to the serial sexist behavior and concrete sexual exploitation and abuse of Bill Clinton (for whom I voted twice). The unwillingness of so many middle-class feminists to hold Hillary Clinton responsible for her cold and demeaning treatment of her husband’s working-class accusers seems inexplicable to me.

Apparently she didn't get the Always Believe the Woman EXCEPT for...memo.

DUUUUUUUUD!

Camille Paglia's Profiles in Cocaine continues with saying Sinéad O'Connor deserved to be abused as a child pic.twitter.com/vLlqVsrOe0

— cris (@ilchinealach) June 29, 2023

(just posted same clip in the Sinead thread, but figured it is worth emphasizing here)

vile human being

paglia was and remains an idiot