Refugee situation / EU response - rolling news

Waiting for the proposal to send 7 year old Syrian orphans up chimneys.

The petty, impractical small-mindedness of politicians around immigration is just astonishing

UK Parliament is also proposing to deport Syrian orphans once they reach 18, which sounds legally dubious to say the least.

They'd struggle to deport them if Syria is still "unsafe" but hundreds of Afghan kids get deported at 18 every year at the moment. They're deported after years out of their home country and with no obvious support network to go back to.

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2015/07/16/600-unaccompanied-child-asylum-seekers-deported-uk-afghanistan/

The petty, impractical small-mindedness of politicians around immigration is just astonishing

Sadly it's not just politicians. Civil servants and bureaucrats at every single level of the process seem more than happy to apply the letter and the heartless spirit of the law with zeal.

(Home office quote:) We take our international responsibility in cases involving children seriously and their welfare is at the heart of every decision made.

Hilarious.

Not necessarily to do w/politicians or civil servants - people here (all classes) just.don't.want more foreigners under any circumstances. Cameron is looking at the polls and nodding.

link?

Haven't you heard, we live on a TINY ISLAND.

There is the yougov one from above, and many have anecdotes (some in the thread) (I have one myself but I won't type out what was said) of encounters with people that don't give a damn.

It's hard to give that Yougov poll much credit - people can hardly be trusted to say whether we should admit higher or lower numbers than we currently do, when that figure itself is the most obscured and mis-reported in this whole issue. The poll itself massages the figures for the most sensational headlines: "Of the people who can put a number on how many Syrian refugees Britain should take, 50% say it should be zero." - but 734 of the 1579 question say they can't or don't want to give such a number! In the same poll 36% - the largest percentage - say we should admit more Syrian refugess than we are currently, only 14% say we shouldn't let any in. Still a dispiriting figure but nowhere near 50%.

Agree ppl in general can be more divided on the question.

However in the poll yesterday for Newsnight (and I think in the one above) it said something similar: largest % for more but the majority were happy with the current (low) figure or less which combined beats the largest % Unfortunately enough ppl have said immigration is a worry (usually tied to scarcity of jobs etc) and are now voting for UKIP in numbers, these aren't enough to convert to seats but that's more to do with the voting system. LOL @ that.

Allied w/the history of the treatment of immigrants over the years and the resentment over 'multiculturalism' and the like then I am prepared to believe that most people aren't going to budge.

people can hardly be trusted to say whether we should admit higher or lower numbers than we currently do

^ this is the line politicians should take in general over many of these things. Its about leardership and standing up for something like beliefs. LOL @ that.

but the majority were happy with the current (low) figure or less which combined beats the largest %

the majority - an even larger majority - are also happy with the current figure or higher! agree w/ your last point but the morass of disinformation at all levels is infuriating.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/09/04/the-arab-worlds-wealthiest-nations-are-doing-next-to-nothing-for-syrias-refugees/

Like European countries, Saudi Arabia and its neighbors also have fears over new arrivals taking jobs from citizens, and may also invoke concerns about security and terrorism. But the current gulf aid outlay for Syrian refugees, which amounts to collective donations under $1 billion (the United States has given four times that sum), seems short — and is made all the more galling when you consider the vast sums Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E. poured into this year's war effort in Yemen

...

The Arabic hashtag #Welcoming_Syria's_refugees_is_a_Gulf_duty was tweeted more than 33,000 times in the past week, according to the BBC

Not sure those figures are entirely accurate. Kuwait alone has given over $1bn, iirc, and Saudi, Qatar and the UAE are all in the top ten donor countries. Kuwait has given 26 times more money than France this year. Obvs a lot more they could be doing to resettle refugees though.

“In the end, it is not right for us to accept a people that are different from us. We don’t want people who suffer from internal stress and trauma in our country."
- Kuwaiti official Fahad Al Shalami

I was slow at catching up with my current events and just recently found out that that 800,000 figure is actually 40% asylum-seekers from the Balkans.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/top-german-immigration-official-on-influx-of-syrian-refugees-a-1050685.html

Manfred Schmidt: That's difficult to say. Whether we have similarly high numbers next year will depend on if we succeed in lowering the influx from Balkans countries like Serbia and Albania. People who come from this region are almost never recognized as refugees or as being eligible for asylum. But they also represent around 40 percent of all current asylum-seekers in Germany.

The 800k figure is a projection for the year based on the expected increase in Syrian refugees. The 40% figure is of the 200k who applied in the year to August but it doesn't follow that the same proportion will be from the Western Balkans for the rest of the year.

Why are there so many people coming from the Balkans at this point in time?

political instability in most of the non-EU Balkan countries plus unresolved tensions caused by the wars in the former Yugoslavia plus established traditions of emigration to western Europe

The whole region has been unsettled this year but a lot of the push from Kosovo and Albania has been economic - Germany has traditionally not see Kosovo as a safe country so wouldn't deport people back there, though this has changed in the last few weeks.

The majority of people from Serbia who go to Germany are Roma who argue that racism and endemic poverty give cause for claims of refuge, though the German and Serbian governments disagree. I would guess that the increase in number of refugees making the same passage makes it easier for others to go too - if they were being waved through checkpoints, etc.

Big hearted Britain

― Fields of Fat Henry (Tom D.), Monday, September 7, 2015 12:49 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh tom, why the hell did i read the comments to your link?

In Germany, for instance, a rapidly aging population is becoming increasingly aware of the need to welcome foreigners.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/09/08/this-map-helps-explain-why-some-european-countries-reject-refugees-and-others-love-them/

The article talks about demographics, economies, and morals/ethics...

A call for communism to sort this out once and for all:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n18/slavoj-zizek/the-non-existence-of-norway

The greatest hypocrites are those who call for open borders. They know very well this will never happen

But dreaming of communism is just fine.

Got the govt's response to the '“Accept more asylum seekers' petition today. The take-home message:

Those who have already reached Europe are no longer in immediate danger and the European countries in which they arrive have a duty to provide adequate protection and support to refugees within their territory.

It is not inherently racist or proto-fascist for host populations to talk of protecting their ‘way of life’

It's a bit early for me - can't quite think of an example where doing this wasn't either of those things...

This has always been used by idiots. I never really understood that notion anyway.

We should avoid getting trapped in the liberal self-interrogation, ‘How much tolerance can we afford?’ Should we tolerate migrants who prevent their children going to state schools; who force their women to dress and behave in a certain way; who arrange their children’s marriages; who discriminate against homosexuals?

I don't know anyone who thinks like this. Maybe I don't read the correct loony-left blogs but this seems like a total non problem.

Who fucking asked Zizek anyway?

(Is a question that can be applied to many issues, I find)

The LRB, I assume, but cosign nonetheless.

Right wing populists the Swedish Democrats, who may now become the biggest party, are exploiting people’s worries about the end of the welfare state. The leader tweeted “The election is a choice between mass immigration and welfare. You choose.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/26/scandinavia-far-right-stolen-left-ground-welfare

I don't know anyone who thinks like this. Maybe I don't read the correct loony-left blogs but this seems like a total non problem.

That line seemed to be conflating several things - what the right-wing seem to think an effect of multiculturalism was, and then the international left's distrust/hatred of liberals. xp

Reading Zizek and Taylor Parkes' piece on Corbyn back-to-back yesterday was "one for the ages", as its sometime said.

I thought there were a lot of interesting points in Zizek's approach.

It is not inherently racist or proto-fascist for host populations to talk of protecting their ‘way of life’: this notion must be abandoned. If it is not, the way will be clear for the forward march of anti-immigration sentiment in Europe whose latest manifestation is in Sweden, where according to the latest polling the anti-immigrant Sweden Democrats have overtaken the Social Democrats as the country’s most popular party. The standard left-liberal line on this is an arrogant moralism: the moment we give any credence to the idea of ‘protecting our way of life’, we compromise our position, since we’re merely proposing a more modest version of what anti-immigrant populists openly advocate. And this is indeed the cautious approach that centrist parties have adopted in recent years. They reject the open racism of anti-immigrant populists, but at the same time profess that they ‘understand the concerns’ of ordinary people, and so enact a more ‘rational’ anti-immigration policy.

But what does this mean? Is there no way of avoiding immmigration and no way of life to protect?

Immigration IS a way of life and the only one worth protecting.

if a "way of life" can't accommodate change then chances are that it is pretty rubbish

Morris Dancing RIP

I read that as Morris Dancing MP, I thought what constituency does he represent?

Hitchin & Bitchin

the U.S. has admitted only 1,500 since the war started four years ago

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/09/09/obama-propose-higher-refugee-ceiling-syrian/71948318/

Refugee relief groups have called on the United States to allow as many as 65,000 Syrian refugees in the United States

"The greatest hypocrites are those who call for open borders. They know very well this will never happen"

But dreaming of communism is just fine.

Why isnt it? He's calling for alternatives to global capitalism. The liberal faux moral high ground isnt going to provide any.

the world and her dog are calling for alternatives to global capitalism. i don't see why zizek's moral high ground is any less faux.

^

A reply: https://samkriss.wordpress.com/2015/09/11/building-norway-a-critique-of-slavoj-zizek/

Germany has reintroduced controls at the Austrian border.

https://twitter.com/DanAmira/status/643503538065272832

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34275400

Hungary using water cannon and tear gas against refugees now. Serbia is sending police and medics to protect them at the border and says it'll never erect fences to keep people fleeing violence out. Victor Ponta, Prime Minister of Romania, has said Orban's measures bring “shame to the culture and values of the European Union.”

Seems to be a concerted effort on the side of Poland to push their position in the Western press at the moment:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/eastern-european-migrants-refugees-selfish

Marcin Zaborowski talking about "creating safe havens within Syria" (!) for them to stay and Jacek Rostowski, former deputy Prime Minister indicating that they should all stop in Greece / Malta / Italy:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/606bf3ec-5b07-11e5-9846-de406ccb37f2.html#axzz3lyjkzIpf

my uni announced we're going to host 100 syrian refugee students for their 3 years toward a licence, with Qatar picking up the bill at 600,000 euros per year. I guess that's one way Gulf states can handle their consciences.

Its encouraging to see Hungary being shamed by other Eastern countries. The European Union not being as harsh on Hungary as they were with Greece when not dealing with payments.

Bet Eastern Euro have a better infrastructure than Lebanon. xp

This is great:

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3266/spanish-football/2015/09/16/15434232/refugee-tripped-by-hungarian-reporter-to-coach-in-getafe

The guy who was tripped up by the Hungarian camerawoman while carrying his son was previously a Premier League coach in Syria and has been offered a job to work with Getafe.