Another Canadian Icon Traded - The 2015 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

I was aware of those WAR faces on the Jays page throughout the year; Pillar was always in the top 4-5 because of his defense, and he really began to move up when he started hitting the last two months. Pompey was amazing in the post-season--does he hit enough to warrant an everyday job?

Only caught a bit of Shapiro yesterday. Sounds very much like a philosophical split: methodical consensus decisions vs. AA's maverick-free-rein guy. Which I understand from both sides, and I'm not sure which approach more often produces results. Anyway, I hope people start to calm down. If they start off with a couple of good months, that'll be the end of it. If they start off disastrously, well, have fun, Mr. Shapiro--probably won't be a lot of "give him time" goodwill out there.

Good article by Jose. http://www.theplayerstribune.com/jose-bautista-bat-flip/

Signed Estrada for 2 years/$26 million. Probably rules out Greinke or Price.

I don't think it would - iirc they have ~35-40mm to play with. A slight back loading of the last 4-5 years and it works out. Tho I honestly don't expect them to land either. I figure Zimmerman would be a more reasonable target.

This Cleveland makeover's starting to get a little creepy. The other day the FAN said they're about to offer Eric Wedge a job "in some capacity." Not that that would give the current manager reason to start looking over his shoulder or anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goh7zOeOS_U

Haven't read anything yet, just guessing: they're looking at Pompey for left, looking at a platoon, or looking to move Devon Travis out there when he returns. Would this be a shutdown bullpen on the order of the Royals (or Yankees): Sanchez, Storen, Cecil, Osuna? I don't know, and don't know if they're looking at Osuna or Storen as closer.

you think they're that sold on Goins? i don't really see the need to move Devon, between the inevitable injuries to him and Tulo and rest days, I'm sure Ryan will be getting enough playing time.

The bandwagon hadn't pulled into my neighborhood early last season, so I don't have a good sense of Travis. Myself, I was really, really impressed with Goins--his defense was incredible. If he hits .250 like last year, I think he's a major plus. (Indeed, his WAR was 2.7 in 128 games.) The club, I don't know.

Who's leadoff now? I don't think they'll try Tulowitzki again. I can maybe see Pillar there, but he'd need another 50 points of OBP. I guess Travis or Pompey.

when your lineup has tulo, donaldson, jose and edwin, i think you need to re-think the concept of "leadoff" and just plug them all up at the top.

That's what a guy at work said--put Donaldson leadoff. I don't think I'd want that...I guess I've got the residue of traditional ideas about that spot: good OBP, speed (not necessarily stolen bases), some extra-base pop. The first two describe Donaldson, but obviously he exceeds "some" by quite a bit. I like him second or third.

i guess you would go with your best OBP guy at leadoff then. which would be Bautista. which might cause a minor uprising within the casual fan masses. i could live with Travis or Pompey at leadoff (assuming Pomp bounces back).

happy 60th to rance mulliniks

@BlueJays
We are pleased to announce that work will begin the week of Feb 8 to install a regulation dirt infield in time for the 2016 regular season

i'm a little surprised. this was supposed to take years to get going.

gotta save tulo

can't they just strap turf to the underside of his cleats?!

oh shit. i guess i misunderstood – it's literally just the dirt area and not any of part of the field/grass etc

Wait, so what they have now is some kind of synthetic dirt?

bautista wants to play another five years, has given the jays the $ figure that will require

plus, hometown discount: "Doesn’t exist. Not in my world..."

tbf he's been grossly underpaid on his current contract, but i don't think that's going to help too much when he's a 36-year-old free agent

Time for a new thread, Thermo. "I'm Still Angry at Ben Revere"...something more positive--it was a great year.

Wha? Whym I in charge of thread makin here?!

It has to do with Fermat's Theorem, or Euler's Conjecture, or symmetry, or something mathematical--can't remember exactly.

I don't remember where Bautista's current contract placed him on the spectrum when it was signed--$64 million/5 years in 2012--but if he's been grossly underpaid the past couple of years, isn't that short-sightedness on his part (and quite common in baseball)? You sign for what you think you're worth, the market changes, and eventually you're a bargain. Did he really give them a "hometown discount" in 2011?

he gave them them the "last season may have been a fluke" discount.

apparently the Jays almost dealt Saunders for Jay Bruce?!

what amazes me the most is that there's a player with a no trade clause, who *doesn't* have the Jays on it!

haha i saw somewhere that the jays *were* on his no-trade list last year but he took them off sometime recently

i think the Jays should just automatically trade for anyone who who omits them from their list. as a kind of "thank you".

he gave them them the "last season may have been a fluke" discount

Yes--with a bit of "I've already turned 30" discount thrown in for good measure.

there's a lot of money in baseball these days, but i don't think anyone is going to offer jbats $150m for his age 36-40 seasons

I think it's a huge bluff by Bautista -- from his perspective if the Jays are dumb enough to give him the money then great, and at the very least they'll be scared enough to go all in this season because they (Jays' ownership) know JBats will walk.

What he hasn't considered is option c), that the new/old Jays regime doesn't give a crap about winning or losing or his contract demands.

I'm not sure what he was thinking. He must realize the team wasn't likely to keep both him and EE (not at market value); so I do t get why'd he be so rigid right out of the gates.

No harm really in playing hardball with management.

uhya... behind closed doors maybe.

well actually yes – the harm maybe be management decides to pay out the other guy well into his 30's, who will probably be DH'ing for most of his contract instead of you!

All the more reason to be aggressive now! He knows he's competing against an equally popular teammate and there's only going to be room for one of them on the team, isn't it better to go on the offensive and dictate the terms of the debate?

I think he also realizes that the only way to get our cheapskate ownership to deal with him fairly (if he's interested in staying with the team) is by making his demands public and getting the fans on his side.

I'd be interested in a study that compares Bautista to another set of similarly-skilled 35-year-olds. (Could be difficult to find a large enough pool of players--Bautista's career arc has been pretty unusual.) Seems to me that the biggest risk he's taking is that he heads into the break this year hitting .225 with 11 home runs or something. That wouldn't be out of the question for someone his age.

His age-based similarity scores (on B-R) list names like Jason Bay, JD Drew, David Justice, and Jay Buhner. All of them were good through Age 34, and all of them pretty much fell apart within the next couple of years. But none of them were as good as Bautista has been from Ages 30-34.

Darryl Strawberry appears as a comp, but it's misleading -- Straw was great in his 20's and then declined, JBats had his first great season at age 29, but if you compare their career stats at Age 34, they're similar.

So yeah, finding a good comp is tough.

Oh please:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14943065/goose-gossage-rips-jose-bautista-toronto-blue-jays-nerds-ruining-baseball

I suspect half the reason people my age remember Gossage so well is because of the flair and colour he brought to the game--he was a character. I know I've said that walk-off bedlam for a meaningless game in June can be a bit much, but the bat-flip game wasn't that.

worst thing about north american sports in general and baseball in particular: old white guys getting mad at non-whites for being insufficiently reticent.

someone started a new thread:

In the Unlikely Event Drew Hutchison Posts a Sub-5.00 ERA, How Will You React? (Toronto Blue Jays 2016)

Yes, someone...I thought I was on the new one, oops.

You're right--I didn't even mention the underlying racial implications. I don't know much about Gossage the person, so it's not an accusation, but you can't avoid acknowledging that. Anyway, Bautista handled it well, and I like the Harper quote in there.

haha hadn't noticed you were the thread starter on the other one