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Really?

Instant Karmagideon Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 30 December 2015 17:58 (eight years ago) link

Yes, you can find numerous listings of it, some say Vian improved the prose. Apparently Van Vogt and Lovecraft were popular with French surrealists.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 18:21 (eight years ago) link

Loads of good stuff on wikipedia

Critical opinion about the quality of van Vogt's work has been sharply divided.

One early and articulate critic was then-23-year-old Damon Knight. In a 1945[12] chapter-long essay reprinted in In Search of Wonder,[10] entitled "Cosmic Jerrybuilder: A. E. van Vogt", Knight famously remarked that van Vogt "is no giant; he is a pygmy who has learned to operate an overgrown typewriter". Knight described The World of Null-A as "one of the worst allegedly adult science fiction stories ever published". About van Vogt's writing, Knight said:

In general van Vogt seems to me to fail consistently as a writer in these elementary ways: 1. His plots do not bear examination. 2. His choice of words and his sentence-structure are fumbling and insensitive. 3. He is unable either to visualize a scene or to make a character seem real.

About Empire of the Atom Knight wrote:

If you can only throw your reasoning powers out of gear—something many van Vogt fans find easy to do—you'll enjoy this one.

Knight also expressed misgivings about van Vogt's politics, noting that his stories almost invariably present absolute monarchy in a favorable light. But in 1974, he went partly back on his criticism after finding out about Vogt's working methods about writing down his dreams:[13]

This explains a good deal about the stories, and suggests that it is really useless to attack them by conventional standards. If the stories have a dream consistency which affects readers powerfully, it is probably irrelevant that they lack ordinary consistency.

On the other hand, when science fiction author Philip K. Dick was asked [14] which science fiction writers had influenced his work the most, he replied:

I started reading sf when I was about twelve and I read all I could, so any author who was writing about that time, I read. But there's no doubt who got me off originally and that was A.E. van Vogt. There was in van Vogt's writing a mysterious quality, and this was especially true in The World of Null A. All the parts of that book did not add up; all the ingredients did not make a coherency. Now some people are put off by that. They think that's sloppy and wrong, but the thing that fascinated me so much was that this resembled reality more than anybody else's writing inside or outside science fiction.

Dick also defended van Vogt against Damon Knight’s criticisms:

Damon feels that it's bad artistry when you build those funky universes where people fall through the floor. It's like he's viewing a story the way a building inspector would when he's building your house. But reality really is a mess, and yet it's exciting. The basic thing is, how frightened are you of chaos? And how happy are you with order? Van Vogt influenced me so much because he made me appreciate a mysterious chaotic quality in the universe which is not to be feared.

In a review of Transfinite: The Essential A.E. van Vogt, science fiction writer Paul Di Filippo said:

Van Vogt knew precisely what he was doing in all areas of his fiction writing. There's hardly a wasted word in his stories... His plots are marvels of interlocking pieces, often ending in real surprises and shocks, genuine paradigm shifts, which are among the hardest conceptions to depict. And the intellectual material of his fictions, the conceits and tossed-off observations on culture and human and alien behavior, reflect a probing mind...Each tale contains a new angle, a unique slant, that makes it stand out.[15]

In The John W. Campbell Letters, Campbell says, "The son-of-a-gun gets hold of you in the first paragraph, ties a knot around you, and keeps it tied in every paragraph thereafter—including the ultimate last one".[9][16]

Harlan Ellison (who began reading van Vogt as a teenager)[17] wrote, "Van was the first writer to shine light on the restricted ways in which I had been taught to view the universe and the human condition".[9]

Writing in 1984 David Hartwell said:[18]

No one has taken van Vogt seriously as a writer for a long time. Yet he has been read and still is. What no one seems to have noticed is that van Vogt, more than any other single SF writer, is the conduit through which the energy of Gernsbackian, primitive wonder stories have been transmitted through the Campbellian age, when earlier styles of SF were otherwise rejected, and on into SF of the present.

The literary critic Leslie A. Fiedler said something similar:[19]

Van Vogt is a test case, ...since an apology for or analysis of science fiction which fails to come to terms with his appeal and major importance, defends or defines the genre by falsifying it.

The American literary critic Fredric Jameson says of van Vogt:

...that van Vogt's work clearly prepares the way for that of the greatest of all Science Fiction writers, Philip K. Dick, whose extraordinary novels and stories are inconceivable without the opening onto that play of unconscious materials and fantasy dynamics released by van Vogt, and very different from the more hard-science aesthetic ideologies of his contemporaries (from Campbell to Heinlein).[20]:315

Nevertheless, van Vogt still has his critics. For example, Darrell Schweitzer writing to The New York Review of Science Fiction in 1999[21] quoted a passage from the original van Vogt novelette "The Mixed Men", which he was then reading, and remarked:

This is the realism, and logic, of a small boy playing with toy soldiers in a sandbox. I'm tougher than you. I’ve got a billion spaceships! They’re brand-new. They only took 800 years to develop.

And this is a story in which most of the cast either have two brains or are really robots...and even the emotions of the human characters are programmed or deprogrammed as part of plots within counter plots. Next to this, Doc Smith was an icy realist. There is no intersection with adult reality at any point, for all van Vogt was able to write was that small boy's sandbox game with an adult level of intensity. This is, I think, the secret of van Vogt's bizarre fascination, as awful as his actual writing might be, and why he appealed so strongly to Philip K. Dick, who managed to put more adult characters and emotions into equally crazy situations. It's ultimately very strange to find this sort of writing so prominently sponsored by supposedly rational and scientifically minded John W. Campbell, when it seems to contravene everything the Golden Age stood for.

Recognition

In 1946, van Vogt and his first wife, Edna Mayne Hull, were Guests of Honor at the fourth World Science Fiction Convention.[22]

In 1980, van Vogt received a "Casper Award" (precursor to the Canadian Prix Aurora Awards) for Lifetime Achievement.[23][24]

The Science Fiction Writers of America named him its 14th Grand Master in 1995 (presented 1996).[25] There had been great controversy within SFWA regarding its long wait in bestowing its highest honor (limited to living writers, no more than one annually[25]). Writing an obituary of van Vogt, Robert J. Sawyer, a fellow Canadian writer of science fiction remarked:

There was no doubt that van Vogt should have received this honor much earlier — the injustice of him being overlooked, at least in part because of damnable SFWA politics, had so incensed Harlan Ellison, a man with an impeccable moral compass, that he'd lobbied hard on the Sci-Fi Channel and elsewhere on van Vogt's behalf.[26]

It is generally held that the "damnable SFWA politics" concerns Damon Knight, the founder of the SFWA, who abhorred van Vogt's style and politics and thoroughly demolished his literary reputation in the 1950s.[27]

Harlan Ellison was more explicit in 1999 introduction to Futures Past: The Best Short Fiction of A. E. van Vogt:[17]

... at least I was able to make enough noise to get Van the Science Fiction Writers of America Grand Master Award, which was presented to him in full ceremony during one of the last moments when he was cogent and clearheaded enough to understand that finally, at last, dragged kicking and screaming to honor him, the generation that learned from what he did and what he had created had, at last, 'fessed up to his importance.

... were the same ones who assured me that Van would never get the Grand Master until Damon Knight had gotten it first, because Damon had loathed Van's work and had, in fact written the essay that ridiculed Van and held him up to opprobrium for decades thereafter, and Damon having founded SFWA it would be an affront to him if Van got it first. Well, I don't know if that's true or not, though it is was common coin in the field for years; but Damon got the Grand Master award in 1994. And Van got it in 1995. As they say during sweeps week on television: coincidence or conspiracy?

In 1996, van Vogt received a Special Award from the World Science Fiction Convention "for six decades of golden age science fiction".[24] That same year, the Science Fiction and Fantasy Hall of Fame inducted him in its inaugural class of two deceased and two living persons, along with writer Jack Williamson (also living) and editors Hugo Gernsback and John W. Campbell.[28]

The works of van Vogt were translated into French by the surrealist Boris Vian (The World of Null-A as Le Monde des Å in 1958), and van Vogt's works were "viewed as great literature of the surrealist school".[29] In addition, 'Slan' was published in French, translated by Jean Rosenthal, under the title À la poursuite des Slans, as part of the paperback series 'Editions J'ai Lu: Romans-Texte Integral' in 1973, this edition also listing the following works by van Vogt as having been published in French as part of this series: Le Monde des Å, La faune de l'espace, Les joueurs du Å, L'empire de l'atome, Le sorcier de Linn, Les armureries d'Isher, Les fabricants d'armes, and Le livre de Ptath.[30]

Damon Knight hated Lovecraft too. Joanna Russ said Knight nearly cried when she told him she was a huge Lovecraft fan.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 18:34 (eight years ago) link

lol at description of HE.

Instant Karmagideon Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 30 December 2015 19:59 (eight years ago) link

The "moral compass" thing? Yeah, I even remember him saying he has no morals and he'd fuck a chicken in public but I think that description is mostly said with regard to him fighting for other people and for certain causes.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 20:16 (eight years ago) link

I love Harlan (as much as anyone can love such an erratic assholish bombthrowing type) but yeah that is lol

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 20:18 (eight years ago) link

didn't know about the surrealist van vogt love, but do remember an article published in a collection of articles by the chicago surrealist group about breton & co discovering the work of lovecraft during their wartime exile in new york.

also picked up this anthology years ago due to the boris vian story included...
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EIP9A5FxL._SX312_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

no lime tangier, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 20:19 (eight years ago) link

Haha, maybe Damon Knight nearly cried if/when he found out Vian translated Van Vogt.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 20:39 (eight years ago) link

spaceships

-san (Lamp), Wednesday, 30 December 2015 20:43 (eight years ago) link

i think what led me to van vogt was dick. read somewhere what a big influence he was on pkd. the french know what's up.

scott seward, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 20:59 (eight years ago) link

there are some things mentioned above in the amazon 12 days of christmas ebook sale (.co.uk at least)

World War Z - 99p
The Southern Reach Trilogy - Book 1 99p, Book 2 £1.49
Ray Bradbury Stories Volume 2 - £1.49 (another 100 short stories)

koogs, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 20:59 (eight years ago) link

http://scottlynch.us/blog/2016/01/01/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-lying-crazypants-liars-who-lie/

I'm kind of fascinated by Wright. Never read his work, but he has got to be one of the most bizarre figures in speculative fiction. The first time I ever read Wright's blog I had to keep checking it wasn't all a big joke.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 3 January 2016 00:55 (eight years ago) link

Just found this but have not watched or listened yet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdhSKT3AGyA

Green Dolphin Street Hassle (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 3 January 2016 03:40 (eight years ago) link

Anybody read this guy?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41r-DhdtknL.jpg

if image doesn't show, it's The Rim of Morning: Two Tales of Cosmic Horror by William Sloane. From New York Review Classics, no less:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590179064?keywords=William%20Sloane&qid=1451927815&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

dow, Monday, 4 January 2016 17:20 (eight years ago) link

Great to read that on Van Vogt, really need to get back to him.

dow, Monday, 4 January 2016 17:21 (eight years ago) link

I have a 60s version of Rim Of Morning but haven't read it.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 4 January 2016 17:44 (eight years ago) link

I just read about those Sloane books in this thread last month and have been wanting to read them. I thought they would be on one or another of the gutenberg sites but no. Will probably buy the NYRB edition.

banned on ixlor (Jon not Jon), Monday, 4 January 2016 21:44 (eight years ago) link

American and UK RA Lafferty fans willing to read ebooks are in luck. A huge pile of his books becomes available at the end of the month

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=Lafferty+gateway

Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 4 January 2016 22:38 (eight years ago) link

i got the nyrb rim of morning, for reasons of my own i quite felt like havinga ~cosmic horror~ january. haven't read it yet tho

carly rae jetson (thomp), Monday, 4 January 2016 23:20 (eight years ago) link

American and UK RA Lafferty fans willing to read ebooks are in luck. A huge pile of his books becomes available at the end of the month

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=Lafferty+gateway🔗


Thanks but do not see

Green Dolphin Street Hassle (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 4 January 2016 23:37 (eight years ago) link

Still kinda tempted to buy a copy of Okla Hannali.

Green Dolphin Street Hassle (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 4 January 2016 23:40 (eight years ago) link

The Lafferty titles are

Nine Hundred Grandmothers
The Reefs Of Earth
Annals Of Klepsis
Serpent's Egg
Sindbad, The Thirteenth Voyage
Apocalypses
The Devil Is Dead (book 1 of a trilogy)
East Of Laughter
Arrive At Easterwine
Does Anyone Else Have Something Further To Add?
Not To Mention Camels
Space Chantey
Fourth Mansions
Past Master

Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 5 January 2016 00:06 (eight years ago) link

Actually it's not clear that Devil Is Dead is first in the trilogy. I can't find a listing of what the third book even is.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 5 January 2016 00:22 (eight years ago) link

All I could find was same old stuff: the exclusive, handsomely priced multivolume limited edition hardcover short story collections, the handful of Gutenberg public domains such as "The Six Fingers of Time" and the above mentioned Native American novel Okla Hannali.

Green Dolphin Street Hassle (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 5 January 2016 00:51 (eight years ago) link

On May 27, unregistered posted a link to a vast vast trove of Lafferty stories, which might still be downloadable, but now you have to request access etc.

dow, Tuesday, 5 January 2016 01:32 (eight years ago) link

xp Re William Sloane, I posted about one of those two novels in the Horror Novels/Short Stories thread recently:

I don't know how I missed William Sloane's The Edge of Running Water (1939) for so long. It's exactly the sort of mad scientist story you'd expect to have been made into a Karloff movie, but the book is quite a bit weirder and more dreadful than I expected. Slick rather than pulpy prose keeps you wondering if the story will turn toward mystery or SF or horror. It's set in Maine and some scenes are Stephen King avant la lettre.

I've been trying to get the other novel included in the Rim of Morning collection from the library, but that copy seems to have vanished into another dimension, so maybe I'll spring for the NYRB paperback.

Brad C., Tuesday, 5 January 2016 01:40 (eight years ago) link

there is this guy around the corner from my house and he has this HUGE space devoted to selling books on Amazon, but also tons of shelves devoted to non-Amazon stuff and he is open to the public. I'm usually the only one in there when I'm there. a true mixed bag inside. he buys humongous cardboard tubs from the Salvation Army filled with books and usually has a few sitting outside filled to the rim with stuff not Amazon-worthy. the things must weigh a ton. anyway, his SF section has grown over time and I do find things there worth bringing home. all the paperbacks are 2 bucks and the hardcovers are usually 5 bucks. this sunday I bought:

michael swanwick - tales of old earth & gravity's angels story collections. (been meaning to find story collections of his for a while.)

ian whates - the noise revealed (never heard of him. and after I bought it I noticed that it was the 2nd book set in the same universe with same characters. so, might need to find the first one...)

eric brown - the kings of eternity (again, never heard of him. blurb-whore Stephen Baxter is a fan...)

gareth l. powell - the recollection (these last three all Solaris paperbacks. they look cool anyway. and I want to try new things.)

anyway, this place down the street is kind of an unlikely spot, but I find stuff that I would never find in an actual bookstore. lots of early 21st century stuff. a lot of it doesn't look thrilling, but enough to have me going back every couple of months. he must buy remainders in bulk.

scott seward, Tuesday, 5 January 2016 02:52 (eight years ago) link

was tempted to buy those dan simmons Ilium/Olympos hardcovers there but I don't think I can do the Greek god thing. been meaning to read him too though. since I know so many writers love his stuff.

scott seward, Tuesday, 5 January 2016 02:55 (eight years ago) link

hyperion is where it's at

mookieproof, Tuesday, 5 January 2016 03:10 (eight years ago) link

Yeah I enjoyed the (first?) two Hyperion books; there might have been more. Don't remember much about 'em though (long ago, when they first came out). Seemed like a refreshing difference from the glut of fantasy, horror, cyberpunk, and military/technoid strap-ons.

dow, Tuesday, 5 January 2016 03:49 (eight years ago) link

Enjoyably slick, sometimes sardonic interstellar intrigue, seemed like he'd learned a thing or two from Bester, but not as intense/serious.

dow, Tuesday, 5 January 2016 03:52 (eight years ago) link

ian whates is a fairly reliable SF anthology editor, haven't read any fiction of his though

eric brown can be very good, but sometimes his welcome low-keyness slips the border into boringness

as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Tuesday, 5 January 2016 08:57 (eight years ago) link

Actually, scott, Eric Brown often seems to be quite Simak-influenced, so he might well be your thing

as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Tuesday, 5 January 2016 09:22 (eight years ago) link

so i dreamt i was the New Sun the other night, that was interesting

carly rae jetson (thomp), Tuesday, 5 January 2016 12:47 (eight years ago) link

did you guys ever talk about the three-body problem here? some friends of mine have a sci-fi book club and they read it recently. the first one. i guess the third book in the trilogy hasn't come out in english yet.

oh that reminds me i did buy the third ancillary book but haven't read it yet. will read that soon.

scott seward, Tuesday, 5 January 2016 14:20 (eight years ago) link

Tell us about yr New Sun dream before you forget it!

dow, Tuesday, 5 January 2016 17:03 (eight years ago) link

New books, mostly mixed reviews, but think I might try Traveler's Rest:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/books/review/the-latest-in-science-fiction-and-fantasy.html?ribbon-ad-idx=4&rref=books&module=Ribbon&version=context®ion=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Books&pgtype=article
(and maybe take a look at the others eventually, if they show up in the library)

dow, Thursday, 7 January 2016 23:45 (eight years ago) link

Tim Powers has a new one called Medusa's Web.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 12 January 2016 18:45 (eight years ago) link

Is it linked to one of his prior settings or all new stuff?

banned on ixlor (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 18:47 (eight years ago) link

Appears to be a standalone.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 12 January 2016 18:49 (eight years ago) link

Often wondered how much metal music themed books there is? Well there's the Axes Of Evil anthology, which is more horror orientated and Swords Of Steel (2 volumes) is sword and sorcery stories by people from metal bands.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 21 January 2016 17:58 (eight years ago) link

ebook of Roadside Picnic and about 10 other SF Masterworks are currently cheap in the usual outlets.

RUR by Karel Capek
99p

Take Back Plenty by Colin Greenland
£1.49

The Penultimate Truth by Philip K. Dick
£1.49

Timescape by Gregory Benford
£1.49

This Is the Way the World Ends by James Morrow
£1.99

The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch by Philip K. Dick
£1.99

War with the Newts by Karel Capek
£1.99

The Affirmation by Christopher Priest
£1.99

Roadside Picnic by Arkady Strugatsky,Boris Strugatsky
£1.99

A Case Of Conscience by James Blish
£1.99

koogs, Thursday, 21 January 2016 18:34 (eight years ago) link

who else dove into war with the newts as a teenager eagerly expecting something way more newt-y?

banned on ixlor (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 21 January 2016 18:37 (eight years ago) link

Run don't walk to pick up The Affirmation and Roadside Picnic.

Starman Jones said it's 2 legit 2 quit (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 January 2016 18:37 (eight years ago) link

(xp) Just bought, may have to return now.

Starman Jones said it's 2 legit 2 quit (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 January 2016 18:37 (eight years ago) link

xposts: in the same kind of vein, are those mick farren sf books worth a read? this looks interesting (maybe) http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6624470-the-texts-of-festival

no lime tangier, Thursday, 21 January 2016 18:38 (eight years ago) link

war with the newts is great! but it was not what my young self was expecting.

why haven't i read roadside picnic yet? Am I stupid?

banned on ixlor (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 21 January 2016 18:44 (eight years ago) link

Perhaps you're just on the hairline fracture of clever.

Starman Jones said it's 2 legit 2 quit (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 January 2016 18:46 (eight years ago) link

nah Strugatsky stuff in English has always been in and out of print, and they are a bit of tough read ime. Like, they operate under a very unusual set of literary rules, maybe the least of which is govt censorship. (I have not read Roadside Picnic fwiw)

Οὖτις, Thursday, 21 January 2016 18:53 (eight years ago) link


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