Refugee situation / EU response - rolling news

I'm fezaffe btw

I don't know who that is, sit down

The idea that MENA cultural values are behind any crimes, rather than any of the other reasons young men emboldened by the perceived anonymity of crowds might commit them, is poisonous orientalist nonsense. The main takeaway from the list of fucked up interactions between a proportion of migrants / tourists / foreign workers - whether British, Moroccan, American or Chinese - and women is that people frequently tend to behave in ways that run counter to their "cultural values" when they can view the women as 'other' and think they can get away with it.

There can be situations in which what codes as persistence in some cultures reads as sexual harassment in others (which is also true within Europe and within individual countries) but nobody commits criminal assault through an ignorance of 'western norms' or an adherence to alternative cultural values. To suggest otherwise is phenomenally dangerous.

Very good post, though I must admit I'm not entirely convinced cultural values have no bearing on crimes commited. Sexual assaults in the West are linked to Western values, right?

Anyway, I'd like to convince myself that you're right. Not so sure I'll be able to convince other people, though.

I suspect those are not the Western values Mordy is referring to. I'm not a sociologist but sexual assault seems both entirely universal and usually inversely proportionate to the effectiveness of domestic police. Talking about a "clash of cultures", which even a lot of liberal commentators are trotting out, essentially boils down to 'it is in their nature to rape and our nature to stop them', which is fatuous on a number of levels.

It would be naive to think that there are not law and order issues related to a sudden influx of people who have no direct ties to community yet, no legal right to work, nothing much to do all day and whose prior records can't be effectively checked but using 'eh, that's just what they're like' when issues occur doesn't strike me as the most useful starting point.

Similarly, there can often be a lot of issues more directly related to gender and equality with immigrant groups of all stripes and entry routes but the most effective ways to combat them tend to actively seek out the participation of women from those communities rather than demonising the whole.

As TWU indicated, the sequence of crimes is still being properly investigated but the Polish government has just used the 'clash of cultures' narrative to ban all Muslims from seeking refuge. Feeding that narrative carelessly is not without consequence.

It's actually quite difficult to piece together what happened in Cologne, especially as the police apparently decided to just stand by and let it happen. How credible are the reports that the assaults were "co-ordinated", as opposed to a general snowballing of behaviour akin to riot? I'm assuming the answer to this is 'not very'.

I don't really get what happened either. The bbc was reporting that a police officer was dismissed because he didn't identify the alleged perpetrators by ethnicity. I gather we're in the usual thin blue line period.

the only thing I know about possible coordination is an interview in the Bildzeitung where the Minister of Justice talks about his suspicion that there was an agreed-upon date and time, no evidence whatsoever. AFAIK snowballing/riot/mass psychology/... seems like a much better guess.

Yeah, there was an interview with Der Spiegel as well where he said that it happened after coordination, or perhaps a vote. But his proof is apparently just, that it makes sense that way...

That said, I've heard that the police are suspecting links to organized crime. Ie that it has more to do with the robberies than the assaults. Which seems quite possible.

There are organized pickpockets in any major European city. Have been for decades, maybe longer.

Right, but this is a quite peculiar method.

Oh is it, officer?

Yeah, according to the officers. Wtf?

When and where did "the officers" say this?

Gangs attacked groups of foreigners in four separate incidents on Sunday in Cologne, the city where dozens of New Year’s Eve assaults on women took place, German police have said, as the government warned against letting the incident lead to suspicion of all migrants.

Cologne police said on Monday afternoon that the victims were two Pakistanis, two Syrians and a group of Africans.

Police said they had stopped and checked 153 people on Sunday evening, 13 of whom were known members of far-right organisations and a further 80 of whom belonged to rocker gangs.

what IS it about white german culture?? wait don't answer that

"rocker gangs" = Denglish non-translation, means hardcore biker gangs.

Polish papers were leading with "Refugees Rape Their Way Across Europe" last week. Russia's main tabloid opts for "Could Cologne Sex Jihad Happen In Moscow?"

http://i.imgur.com/CwGqn2x.jpg?1

Making preparations to move far, far away from Cologne before carnival.

I guess that makes me a refugee :O

Switzerland to follow Denmark in stripping refugees of their valuables when they enter the country:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/15/switzerland-joins-denmark-in-seizing-assets-from-refugees-to-cover-costs

what the fuck

take an administration fee, sure, take a tax upheld by statute but taking WHATEVER 'over 1000 francs' is just fucking thuggery!!

there's speculation in Danish media that the proposition is a hoax that'll never pass parliament but will work as effective anti-asylum PR - hasn't been passed yet, legalities of it all very unclear

The Swiss aren't proposing -- they are doing it already. It's not entirely clear when the practice started. Another pretty bad translation alert: the word translated as "undignified" was very likely "unwürdig", which in this context means more "inhumane" than "unseemly".

still misleading that article talks abt "a practice that has drawn sharp rebukes for Denmark" when it's not practised

but ofc absolutely idiotic idea

Presumably this is meant primarily as a deterrent? Rapidly cut down on the number of refugees entering your country by sending the message that it would be financially punitive to do so, thus diverting them elsewhere. I wouldn't have thought that the flow of refugees into Switzerland would have been particularly high in the first place. I'm guessing they won't be the last country to try this.

and all this is going on while Germany is still v dovish on immigration. one can only imagine which ugly measures will be proposed by the other Member States when the last dove in the room turns into a hawk.

Switzerland's on a through-route from the southern EU to the promised land, and some refugees have gotten stuck. There have been some bad stories about poor treatment.

it appears that Bern started doing this before the refugee crisis; last year 112 people had to pay.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/schweiz-nimmt-fluechtlingen-geld-ab-a-1072143.html

It's not clear at all when the practice started -- no indication in that article.

it's fucking medieval

The Danish parliament has backed a controversial proposal to confiscate asylum seekers' valuables to pay for their upkeep.
Police will be able to seize valuables worth more than 10,000 kroner (1,340 euros; £1,000) from refugees to cover housing and food costs.
MPs also approved plans to delay family reunions for asylum seekers.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35406436

Yup. Really proud of that one...

Also, the government has begun criticizing the opposition for making the law look bad outside of Denmark. Because clearly it would not if it was reported objectively.

iirc Denmark isn't the only country doing this right? i think i've seen similar laws being floated in other european countries.

yeah acc to the guardian germany + sweden also have such policies. presumably it's more about disincentivizing refugees than it is about a budget deficit.

Switzerland, not Sweden. And it's a bit different in the Netherlands, because there refugees are quickly allowed to work.

But yeah, it's about being shitty to refugees, nothing more than that. The epitome of that idea was putting ads in lebanese newspaper explaining how shitty Denmark was towards refugees - and getting in trouble for lying about it and making it worse than it is, apparently the foreign ministry isn't allowed to lie. The major stupidity is that they apparently haven't thought about the fact that more foreigners than refugees might notice the signals being sent, and come to the same conclusion. The policy is in short to tell refugees that Denmark is an awful place for a foreigner to be, while telling EU and the rest of the west that that isn't true and the Denmark is an awesome place for foreigners to be. It's idiotic.

some UK news
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/24/asylum-seekers-made-to-wear-coloured-wristbands-cardiff
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/20/asylum-seekers-north-east-claim-identifiable-red-doors-houses

This was in the guardian today:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZrpMWaWEAAyFgv.jpg

The red doors thing might be less sinister than it looks but it was interesting to see how hard the Times went in - iirc the headline on the front page was "apartheid on the streets of Britain".

before i googled the quote i thought you meant the NYT + i was shocked

The Times is a conservative, centre-right Murdoch paper so not in their normal style either.

iirc the headline on the front page was "apartheid on the streets of Britain".

hearing that to the tune of the smiths' panic tbh

foreign minister Christiane Taubira resigned from Hollande's cabinet today because of her opposition to Hollande & Valis' plan to strip dual French citizens of their French citizenship if convicted of terrorism charges. very much unsure what I think about that plan.

Seems to me like more of a symbolic measure than a practical one. How many French terrorists have dual citizenship?

probably quite a few?

the Harper government in Canada passed a law last year that has the same affect. Dual citizenship Canadians can be stripped of their Canadian citizenship if convicted of terrorism offences. Total BS obv, citizenship shouldn't have tiers.

Sweden: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-sweden-idUSKCN0V60HB

Sweden is likely to deport up to half last year's record 163,000 asylum seekers either voluntarily or forcibly, presenting a major challenge to authorities, Interior Minister Anders Ygeman said on Thursday.

Between 60,000 and 80,000 people will likely have to leave, Ygeman said, which would represent about 45 percent of the total number of applicants.

jfc

bring me 55% of your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free

where are they gonna deport them to, Finland?

wherever

who cares?

out of sight, out of mind!