I will keep doing, but not worth it! The 2016 Presidential Primary Voting Thread

though he will certainly need to run to his right if he becomes president!!

my FB feed is excited that Bernie yelled at a homophobe 21 years ago

http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-rocky-horror/

i consider appearing on a TV show that hasn't been funny in 30 years "a move to the right"

that shit was embarassing. like all modern SNL political material.

i stopped watching when it got to the hand-shaking part

i miss these days:

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/president-reagan-mastermind/n9509

The Totinos Pizza Roll commercial was fantastic, though

I joked to a friend that this is the first election where "It's not the Dead I hate, it's the Deadheads" is a major plank of a candidate's political strategy.

That said, what annoys me about some of my Bernie-supporting friends is not really the nonsense being stuck on them by Clinton shills (the "berniebro" charge or whatever) so much as how butthurt they get about every little thing -- the coin tosses, the "berniebro" charge, etc. I mean you have these obvious Hillary trolls like Amanda Marcotte making unsubstantiated claims about Bernie's base, but it's painful to watch Bernie supporters getting so drawn in by her and so frustrated about it.

Bernie's undeniable value is that by coalescing most of the progressive wing of the party around a policy agenda that's been consistently ceded to the opposition before negotiations even begin, he is making the voting strength of the progressive wing apparent, just as victories by people like Santorum and Cruz make the voting strength of the evangelicals apparent to Republican pols. This will encourage democratic pols to seize and hold this voting bloc more vigorously in this and subsequent elections. This effect will occur so long as he makes a strong showing, even if he loses the nomination. He especially needs to show well in swing states and states with a lot of electoral votes.

I'd like to think that the current tension is natural, it happens almost every time we do this, and I suspect it will fade without too many hard feelings. I saw Clinton stump for Obama - despite the bitterness of that primary race - and came away with warm feelings about both of them. Remember PUMAs? They weren't a factor (despite right-wing hopes that they would help defeat O).

I think about how weird it will be for Republican conventioneers to be raising their arms together and charging forward to the general election with... well, with really any of them.

Aimless otm, which is why I'm not too butthurt about Bernie. But he can't (and probably shouldn't) be president.

the lionizing of him as if he's Jean Claude Van DAmme in Bloodsport by some of my friends on FB has been offputting.

Aimless otm, which is why I'm not too butthurt about Bernie. But he can't (and probably shouldn't) be president.

― Οὖτις, Monday, February 8, 2016 1:46 PM (5 minutes ago)

really still trying to piece together why a proud nader voter thinks a guy like bernie "shouldnt" be president

i mean i get the argument from a moderate perspective, just not yours

Nader was a protest vote, I didn't think he would win, nor do I think he would have been a good president. Nor did I have any illusions about him carrying California lol. I wanted him to get a portion of the vote for the same reasons Aimless listed, and for pretty much the same goals - undermine corporate oligarchy etc.

tbh I kinda regret not voting for Gore, in retrospect he would have been so much better than Dubya, and he was hardly as bad as the Clintons. I sure hated his wife/PMRC though.

patriotic Gore!

your cali vote didn't matter tho lol, so don't sweat it

idk, i know i'm sounding like a broken record here so this is the last time i'll say it, but i definitely think hillary would be a more effective president. given the current composition of congress, and her/bill's history of working with republicans, that's pretty much what scares me

current decomposition of Congress you mean

given the current composition of congress, and her/bill's history of working with republicans, that's pretty much what scares me

the interesting thing about this, though, is that I don't see any reason why the GOP caucus would be any more inclined to cut deals with Hillary than they have been with Obama. Their political rationale will be essentially unchanged, especially with the House - any compromise is akin to treason, and anything a Democratic president proposes must be opposed and fought tooth and nail. There's every indication that this strategy is working for them (they keep getting re-elected!) and that they will continue it. And they certainly hate Hillary as much as Obama (maybe marginally less if you subtract the racism, but not enough to matter).

anything a Democratic president proposes must be opposed and fought tooth and nail

except expanded surveillance, bigger and more frequently dropped bombs (both you can bet on from our very own Iron Lady), etc

I think the Democratic coalition, should it shift back to the majority, would be more inclined to back Hillary than they were Obama, by virtue of her being a Clinton and by virtue of her being white.

except expanded surveillance, bigger and more frequently dropped bombs (both you can bet on from our very own Iron Lady), etc

yup and I'm not looking forward to this

of course on these points Bernie is not really better than Hillary anyway fwiw

what has he said about metadata? i have no idea

I think the Democratic coalition, should it shift back to the majority, would be more inclined to back Hillary than they were Obama

I don't think Obama's legislative problems have stemmed from Democratic opposition (a handful of issues like Iran and TPP aside)

TBC, I count myself as cautiously in the Bernie camp, because I think we desperately need someone like him putting left issues back on the table in an unqualified way. I feel like his straightforward rhetoric is really changing the debate and helping to break the centrist/technocratic stranglehold. I almost feel like as president he could be our W -- not that he's anywhere near as dumb as W, but he seems a bit simplistic. But I still think it's possible he could work as a president with the right advisors (if he actually listens to them).

http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-privacy-and-digital-rights/

HRC voted for the PATRIOT Act, for starters

Funny, I've never heard of anyone perceiving Bernie as "simplistic".

Sanders' entire platform depends on leveraging a consistently engaged and energized voter base into putting pressure onto legislators to support his agenda, which assumes a) that enough Americans care to be constantly engaged with the civic process and can sustain themselves while doing so, and b) that this energized body of voters will unilaterally support his platform. In a reality where half the country is supporting the conservative platform and has put into the majority a political party that wants to strip voting rights, restrict reproductive rights and does not believe climate change is real, I don't see how this actually works.

several times I've imagined President Sanders in that dreadful armchair in which his predecessors sit alongside a visiting head of state and Sanders rolling his eyes and looking at his watch and maybe farting

good on Bernie for voting against the Patriot Act

but the idea that any President is going to get into office and curtail his surveillance/assassination powers is ridiculous. that shit is going to have to come from the courts.

xp

BUT I would like to live in a country where it DID work, so I am still conflicted.

his should be "their"

obviously

xp

The thought of an president relinquishing super terror powers is absurd, firstly because it would weaken him politically. A lamentable percentage of legislators and their think tank supporters get off on the idea of a Strong Executive even if he's a member of the opposing party; that's why so many articles praise Reagan and Bush for being Tough But Wrong.

well obv a president could get into office and begun shutting down the surveillance programs, but it would not affect the ability of future presidents to bring it all back.

Prez Bernie will appoint some judges

xxxxp

http://sadydoyle.tumblr.com/post/138860699828/progressive

this is a pretty fantastic essay

The thought of a president relinquishing super terror powers is absurd, firstly because it would weaken him politically

*ding ding*

The minor reforms that Obama's made to the surveillance state apparatus have actually guaranteed its existence, not to mention given his successor more cool powers.

for all the talk of the "imperial presidency," congress and the courts have more or less collaborated in expanding the power of the executive branch. no president could get away with going to war w/o congressional authorization, for example, if congress were genuinely determined to hold on to the war power.

you guys are really making me realize that it absolutely does not fucking matter who wins this election, so thx! call me the table is the footstool.

Charlie Savage's new Power Wars gets into the absurd dance over the Libya and Syria engagements: Boehner and the GOP made a stink about Obama authorizing military action on his own, then shut up about it as soon as their donors and the base saw the preening on the Sunday morning talk shows.

Jeb Bush ‏@JebBush 4h4 hours ago
.@realDonaldTrump, you aren’t just a loser, you are a liar and a whiner. John McCain is a hero. Over and out.

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 3h3 hours ago
Everybody is laughing at Jeb Bush-spent $100 million and is at bottom of pack. A pathetic figure!

you guys are really making me realize that it absolutely does not fucking matter who wins this election

A Republican president with a congressional majority will be massively more disastrous on all fronts than a Democratic president without a congressional majority. this is a fact.

(just a reminder of the class acts on the other side)

but it's always fun when Morbz can't remember 2000-2008

xp

http://sadydoyle.tumblr.com/post/138860699828/progressive

this is a pretty fantastic essay

― k3vin k., Monday, February 8, 2016 2:42 PM (7 minutes ago)

(btw in case anyone skipped over this because they figured it was a berniebro post, it is the opposite of that)

And they certainly hate Hillary as much as Obama (maybe marginally less if you subtract the racism, but not enough to matter).

Not a race, obviously, but I'm reasonably certain that the GOP will dig deep and find some spare misogyny.

no doubt

you guys are really making me realize that it absolutely does not fucking matter who wins this election

That's amazing because up until now it really seemed like you were totally on board with Democratic party politics