I will keep doing, but not worth it! The 2016 Presidential Primary Voting Thread

i'm sure she is! xp

xp comment deleted because man alive otm.

Animal spirits. Elections aren't all about "policy." Trump should make that clear enough.

xp The thing is I think SD is identifying real sexism, I don't think it's just a matter of seeing everything through a distorting lens. I do see a lot of ugly, stupid comments from male Sanders supporters. Granted, we're talking about the internet, so you don't really know who you're dealing with or how many there are. But I have seen a few friends or friends of friends do it, and I really, really wish men would just stop accusing women of only voting for Hillary because she's a woman, that is just so not men's place to say, and it smacks of conservative "race card" type rhetoric. And I get how that probably makes SD feel even more like circling the wagons around Hillary.

^^^ This is an actual problem.

A college friend of mine (one who I referenced in an earlier thread, the one who dismissed Black Lives Matters protesters' complaints about Sanders as not mattering unless they turned into votes) was called a feminazi cunt by a Sanders supporter for saying that she didn't think that all concerned parties agreeing to use a coin toss to break a voting deadlock at a caucus site was by definition a bad idea. She had been waffling between Sanders and Clinton before that conversation with a strong lean towards Sanders; she is now firmly and irrevocably supporting Clinton.

I expect this in-fighting is gonna get worse before it gets better, but thankfully it should all be over in a month or so

xp ugh Dan, that's disgusting

yeah, bleah. very disheartening. i definitely don't discount the existence of 'bernie bros,' especially with stories like that in mind.

were there 'Obama bros'?

kind of, but the dynamic there was different since race was a factor as well

just really illustrates one can be a purported "social progressive" and still be a complete asshole/waste of oxygen. there was a dude on another message board I posted to years ago who would post really well thought-out progressive liberal essays and yet would address women like "shut the fuck up, bitch!" on the board.

lots of my FB friends are what I call "theatre liberals" which = basically when you break down their politics, they're really right of center, but they like gay people and minorities and don't have any money.

I think the berniebro phenom is overstated but has a grain of truth and that's why it won't die in the media.

BTW yeah there was some version of "Obama bros", I think it was "Obama boys"

tbh Progressives at the turn of the 20th century were assholes by our standards.

there's a popular gay blog called JoeMyGod, and if you'd like to read some vicious, stupid comments made by homos for Hillary to Sanders supporters i recommend the comments there unto you.

were there 'Obama bros'?

posted an '08 salon column about them this morning

our "progressive" candidate in 2008 didn't even support gay marriage at the time of election. really all that illustrates is how far the nation shifted on that topic in a very short period of time (cos he flip flopped on that issue a number of times in the 90s/early 2000s)

bernie bros were definitely former ron paul bros

...after supporting gay marriage in the Illinois legislature in the '90s!

xpost

thank you ilx for sparing me the trouble of going out to confirm the existence of these aforementioned bros

anytime!

http://cdn3.thr.com/sites/default/files/2015/06/donald_thumbs_up.jpg

hah! ilx as "exploratory committee"

bernie bros were definitely former ron paul bros

― lute bro (brimstead), Monday, February 8, 2016 5:53 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sadly this is otm

I mean "Berniebros"TM is a branded smear campaign, but also berniebros do exist. Or maybe a lot of people are capable of having a little bit of berniebro in them in bad moments, in keeping with the idea that "sexism" is not just about identifying the "sexists," just like racism is not located only in "racists."

Berniebro, c'est moi

bernie bros were definitely former ron paul bros

― lute bro (brimstead), Monday, February 8, 2016 5:53 PM

lol this is definitely true of a lot of them (killer mike, for example). though you could come up with some unflattering characterization of the supporters of any candidate

i don't know what the appropriate term is for obnoxious hillary supporters but they're awful too fwiw

"Condescending"

TBF that could be said about any candidate, eye of the beholder, etc.

"Hilsplainers" - the ones that are like "here's how politics actually works, which I know from my experience as an insider of the party that has been really good at losing ground and ceding the center for the last three decades."

Did you just sarcastically Bernsplain Hillsplaining?

man FOX News is still talking about FBI investigations and "emails" -- that's the shorthand.

bernie bros were definitely former ron paul bros

― lute bro (brimstead), Monday, February 8, 2016 5:53 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol yeah I un-"liked" a state Bernie Sanders FB group after they posted some article that was like "Ron Paul calls Bernie Sanders the real free market candidate" as though that should be considered a good thing

has everybody seen the 'free' Bernie Sanders tattoo people are getting

I'm voting for Sanders in the primary mainly for "push the country to the left" reasons but would vote for Clinton without hesitation

'90s nostalgia. Can't see that this would hurt, but it doesn't help.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-clinton-women-idUSMTZSAPEC288843FQ?utm_source=Facebook

posted upthread

I searched "Willey," maybe should have tried Willie.

http://i.imgur.com/cCJ4uwl.jpg

i think hesitating before voting for anyone is a good idea

https://twitter.com/Abunass3r/status/696876640790519813

I'm voting for Sanders in the primary mainly for "push the country to the left" reasons but would vote for Clinton without hesitation

― example (crüt), Monday, 8 February 2016 23:57 (Yesterday) Permalink

This, although my "without hesitation" is because I've never believed that voting should be equated with liking

Talking to my folks for the first time about the election was interesting, they're 100% pro-Clinton and think voting Bernie is a "big mistake." Which I sort of expected. But I also had this moment of realizing that the Clinton years were sort of my political coming of age years -- first term partly spent at home, second term in college, and my parents were enthusiastically pro-Clinton so I was too, but then in college I started to feel like Clinton was betraying what I thought were Democratic values, and then from there the party just lost more and more ground (partly tbf because of 9/11). So then sitting across the table from my parents with my wife and two kids I suddenly had this powerful feeling of a gap, like "wait, now I actually see what went wrong, and you're still stuck in that mentality, but I'm the one who has to raise kids in the America that came out of it." I don't think I've ever felt more completely independent of them.

Anytime I hear about people being enthusiastically pro-Clinton I just wonder wtf world they were living in the 90s.

The dissonance for me, too is that I also remember them feeling betrayed about welfare reform and "the era of big govt is over." But they just liked him so much anyway, IDK, that was his power over people. Also honestly the economy was running quite nicely up until the dot com bust.

I think it was like 1/2 his being amazingly charismatic, 1/6 his being the first boomer "liberal" president so very "relatable" for my parents' generation, 1/6 his being the dem to break the republican stranglehold on the presidency, and 1/6 things just mostly being fine at the time.

the worst part is he extended the conservative stranglehold on the Dem party.

I mean I can understand that after Nixon->Ford->one term of Carter (seen as having gone badly)->two terms of Reagan->GHWB-> it was exciting to just have a dem who could win. Oh and also there was the whole thing with him being embattled by Ken Starr, which really did fucking suck and probably drew his supporters closer to him.

the late Ellen Willis wrote a couple good essays capturing the frustration of lifelong liberals, veterans of many causes, being conscripted to defend this man after he'd spent years avoiding them.

people being enthusiastically pro-Clinton I just wonder wtf world they were living in the 90s.

The same sad sorry world that existed in the 90s.

I cut the Clintons a bit of slack for their conduct in the 90s. He arrived in office with a plurality rather than a majority of the votes cast. The country was still mostly in a Reaganite mood, which a bit later handed Newt Gingrich a House majority in 94. It is well to recall the mouth-frothing hatred they inspired among the far right. Theirs was not an easy time in which to cultivate progressive policies.

Then, in spite of generally setting his sail with the prevailing political wind, Bill was impeached - for the first time since Andrew Johnson! It was a crazy time.

and Johnson wasn't even impeached: the GOP fell short by one vote

btw I don't think anything could've stopped the House from going GOP in '94.

the whole thing with him being embattled by Ken Starr, which really did fucking suck

As the Beatles once said, these are words that go together well.