I will keep doing, but not worth it! The 2016 Presidential Primary Voting Thread

"Condescending"

TBF that could be said about any candidate, eye of the beholder, etc.

"Hilsplainers" - the ones that are like "here's how politics actually works, which I know from my experience as an insider of the party that has been really good at losing ground and ceding the center for the last three decades."

Did you just sarcastically Bernsplain Hillsplaining?

man FOX News is still talking about FBI investigations and "emails" -- that's the shorthand.

bernie bros were definitely former ron paul bros

― lute bro (brimstead), Monday, February 8, 2016 5:53 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol yeah I un-"liked" a state Bernie Sanders FB group after they posted some article that was like "Ron Paul calls Bernie Sanders the real free market candidate" as though that should be considered a good thing

has everybody seen the 'free' Bernie Sanders tattoo people are getting

I'm voting for Sanders in the primary mainly for "push the country to the left" reasons but would vote for Clinton without hesitation

'90s nostalgia. Can't see that this would hurt, but it doesn't help.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-clinton-women-idUSMTZSAPEC288843FQ?utm_source=Facebook

posted upthread

I searched "Willey," maybe should have tried Willie.

http://i.imgur.com/cCJ4uwl.jpg

i think hesitating before voting for anyone is a good idea

https://twitter.com/Abunass3r/status/696876640790519813

I'm voting for Sanders in the primary mainly for "push the country to the left" reasons but would vote for Clinton without hesitation

― example (crüt), Monday, 8 February 2016 23:57 (Yesterday) Permalink

This, although my "without hesitation" is because I've never believed that voting should be equated with liking

Talking to my folks for the first time about the election was interesting, they're 100% pro-Clinton and think voting Bernie is a "big mistake." Which I sort of expected. But I also had this moment of realizing that the Clinton years were sort of my political coming of age years -- first term partly spent at home, second term in college, and my parents were enthusiastically pro-Clinton so I was too, but then in college I started to feel like Clinton was betraying what I thought were Democratic values, and then from there the party just lost more and more ground (partly tbf because of 9/11). So then sitting across the table from my parents with my wife and two kids I suddenly had this powerful feeling of a gap, like "wait, now I actually see what went wrong, and you're still stuck in that mentality, but I'm the one who has to raise kids in the America that came out of it." I don't think I've ever felt more completely independent of them.

Anytime I hear about people being enthusiastically pro-Clinton I just wonder wtf world they were living in the 90s.

The dissonance for me, too is that I also remember them feeling betrayed about welfare reform and "the era of big govt is over." But they just liked him so much anyway, IDK, that was his power over people. Also honestly the economy was running quite nicely up until the dot com bust.

I think it was like 1/2 his being amazingly charismatic, 1/6 his being the first boomer "liberal" president so very "relatable" for my parents' generation, 1/6 his being the dem to break the republican stranglehold on the presidency, and 1/6 things just mostly being fine at the time.

the worst part is he extended the conservative stranglehold on the Dem party.

I mean I can understand that after Nixon->Ford->one term of Carter (seen as having gone badly)->two terms of Reagan->GHWB-> it was exciting to just have a dem who could win. Oh and also there was the whole thing with him being embattled by Ken Starr, which really did fucking suck and probably drew his supporters closer to him.

the late Ellen Willis wrote a couple good essays capturing the frustration of lifelong liberals, veterans of many causes, being conscripted to defend this man after he'd spent years avoiding them.

people being enthusiastically pro-Clinton I just wonder wtf world they were living in the 90s.

The same sad sorry world that existed in the 90s.

I cut the Clintons a bit of slack for their conduct in the 90s. He arrived in office with a plurality rather than a majority of the votes cast. The country was still mostly in a Reaganite mood, which a bit later handed Newt Gingrich a House majority in 94. It is well to recall the mouth-frothing hatred they inspired among the far right. Theirs was not an easy time in which to cultivate progressive policies.

Then, in spite of generally setting his sail with the prevailing political wind, Bill was impeached - for the first time since Andrew Johnson! It was a crazy time.

and Johnson wasn't even impeached: the GOP fell short by one vote

btw I don't think anything could've stopped the House from going GOP in '94.

the whole thing with him being embattled by Ken Starr, which really did fucking suck

As the Beatles once said, these are words that go together well.

Anytime I hear about people being enthusiastically pro-Clinton I just wonder wtf world they were living in the 90s.

I was a college student who became a software engineer. It was a pretty cushy world to live in.

I was a kid playing Legend of the Red Dragon on various BBSs. always blamed Bill for my lack of prowess on that and other door games.

Also for the record how the fuck is it that no one noticed or commented on how fucking awful and racist the connotation behind this is:

BTW yeah there was some version of "Obama bros", I think it was "Obama boys"

remember the bros who enthusiastically sold NAFTA as good a good thing for the Democratic Party to support?

I was a college student who became a software engineer. It was a pretty cushy world to live in.
--its subtle brume (DJP)

Pretty sure that Bill was not responsible for either of these things (without getting into how non cushy a world it was for a lot of other people.)

lol neanderthal

and Johnson wasn't even impeached: the GOP fell short by one vote

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, February 8, 2016 10:35 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

er - no! he was impeached, then acquitted in the senate trial (which is where the one-vote thing happened). same deal as clinton.

"on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive)
Posted: February 8, 2016 at 8:36:38 PM
Talking to my folks for the first time about the election was interesting, they're 100% pro-Clinton and think voting Bernie is a "big mistake." Which I sort of expected. But I also had this moment of realizing that the Clinton years were sort of my political coming of age years -- first term partly spent at home, second term in college, and my parents were enthusiastically pro-Clinton so I was too, but then in college I started to feel like Clinton was betraying what I thought were Democratic values, and then from there the party just lost more and more ground (partly tbf because of 9/11). So then sitting across the table from my parents with my wife and two kids I suddenly had this powerful feeling of a gap, like "wait, now I actually see what went wrong, and you're still stuck in that mentality, but I'm the one who has to raise kids in the America that came out of it." I don't think I've ever felt more completely independent of them."

This rings so true with me at the moment, and kind of crystallizes my hard to describe feelings about this whole deal, esp wrt the kid thing.

"One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF)
Posted: February 8, 2016 at 10:18:49 PM
I was a college student who became a software engineer. It was a pretty cushy world to live in.
--its subtle brume (DJP)
Pretty sure that Bill was not responsible for either of these things (without getting into how non cushy a world it was for a lot of other people.)"

This is so so clearly not the point that DJP is making dude.

it was cushy for me cos i had a beanbag chair

Not sure what his point was.

i read it as "for the fortunate, a group in which i am aware i was a member, it was a good time." which is pertinent to the issue of how the 90s, clinton I, and his legacy might be perceived by some groups vs. others.

The people who can accurately interpret English sentences understood what I was saying

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/feeling-the-yern-why-one-millennial-woman-would-rather-go-to-hell-than-vote-for-hillary-8253224?utm_content=buffer652cc&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

There seems to be no shortage of bizarrely sexist assumptions as to why I, a Millennial feminist, am not voting for Hillary Clinton. But speaking as a Millennial feminist, let me assure you: None of them is accurate. Granted, the span of my political biography is only as long as it took Howard Dean to go from human rights crusader to insurance lobbyist. But the reason for my political disaffection is plain: I've spent my entire Millennial life watching the Democratic Party claw its way up the ass of corporate America. There's no persuading me that the Democratic establishment — from where it sits now — has the capacity to represent me, or my values. [...]

If Millennials are coming out in droves to support Bernie Sanders, it's not because we are tripping balls on Geritol. No, Sanders's clever strategy of shouting the exact same thing for 40 years simply strikes a chord among the growing number of us who now agree: Washington is bought. And every time Goldman Sachs buys another million-dollar slice of the next American presidency, we can't help but drop the needle onto Bernie's broken record[.]

Sanders has split the party with hits like these, a catchy stream of pessimistic populism. Behind this arthritic Pied Piper, the youth rally, brandishing red-lettered signs reading "MONEYLENDERS OUT." If you ask them, they'll tell you there's a special place in Hell for war criminals who launch hedge funds.[...]

My favorite owl pellet comes from Alexandra Schwartz, writing for the New Yorker, who claimed Bernie's incessant talk of Wall Street fuckery is somehow outdated: "When [Sanders's] campaign tweets that it's 'high time we stopped bailing out Wall Street and started repairing Main Street,' you have to wonder," writes Schwartz, obtusely, "why his youngest supporters, so attuned to staleness in all things cultural, are letting him get away with political rhetoric that would have seemed old even in 2012."

What a charmed life Alexandra Schwartz must lead to think that the biggest financial meltdown since the Great Depression should resolve itself according to the needs of the news cycle. But believe it or not, the poors have not yet moved on from being gobsmacked by a globally devastating market collapse. Freedom from the burdens of financial ruin is a privilege I imagine millions of Americans wish they could share with New Yorker staff writer Alexandra Schwartz.

So to paraphrase

"Life for everyone in the 90s sucked because of Clinton, prove me wrong"

"Not for me actually"

"Well he had nothing to do with that and it sucked for everybody else so who cares what you say"

Lots of xposts, probably pointless now I imagine

part of what felt relatively cushy, in a broader sense, about the Clinton years was the sensation of finally having put the Cold War in the rear view mirror. this wasn't due to Bill himself, but it shaded one's sense of "what he stood for", what he embodied.

"The End of History"

yeah, not quite obv.

btw (and somewhat OT): I'm not a Don Lemon fan, but I love his panels

That VV piece was fun to read. Thanks!

if you use Chrome you seriously need to use this extension. makes a stunning amount of web content more bearable.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/millennials-to-snake-peop/jhkibealmjkbkafogihpeidfcgnigmlf?hl=en-US

"The end of history" was of course way overstating things. But calling it a time of (relative) peace and (relative) prosperity does not feel far wrong for many people.

"Things truly sucked for large numbers of people" is worth pointing out, but - that has been true of every time and place. It's also always true that there is a bubble of privilege in which people are largely untouched by the suckitude.

I think the word missed in my original post was "enthusiastically" either way this discussion is silly and I get Dan/JJ's point.

Sanders wins in New Hampshire (towns Dixville Notch, Millsfield and Hart’s Location), with nearly two thirds of the democratic votes!

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/09/bernie-sanders-prevails-and-g-o-p-has-3-way-tie-as-3-new-hampshire-towns-vote/