I will keep doing, but not worth it! The 2016 Presidential Primary Voting Thread

(I think they are wrong but whatever)

reminds me of hedge funders who think Obama is anticapitalist

(also by ' a bunch' I mean two)

i don't think hillary is vehemently anti-israel, but i'm not sure she has a strong case for being better* for israel than bernie. *whatever that means

wtf more do they want out of her, to take a pied a terre in a West Bank settlement?

and i can attest that in my world of left-centrist orthodox jewry there is a lot of consternation over who to vote for and i know at least 3 or 4 ppl who were staunch clinton/gore/kerry/obama voters and now claim (possibly trolling) that they'll vote republican this election.

left-centrist orthodox jewry voting for Donald Trump does not compute

republicans and netanyahu have really skewed perceptions I think; as israel has gotten bolder and more invasive in it's move into the west bank, anything short of welcoming that on the part of the US is being portrayed in some circles as "anti-Israel".

small portions of twitter appeared perturbed that bernie described himself as the child of 'polish immigrants'

something that comes up a lot is concern over what some ppl have characterized as "hostile" emails re israel that have been disclosed in recent email dumps. idk, i think that case is overstated but i've looked at the evidence and there is something there - it's not just a fantasy. you may not be surprised to learn that just like other americans, zionist american jews don't know if they can trust hillary.

(my two aren't supporting Trump. they just don't know what to do if Clinton is the nominee because they think she and Obama are anti-Israel. It's perverse).

what pols think in their correspondence shouldn't concern anybody. I'm sure many craven neo-Likud US reps think in their heart of hearts that "God said this was my house 5000 years ago" is lunacy.

zionist american jews who situate the jewish claim for israel exclusively (or even primarily) within a religious context are generally speaking republican voters bc that's the party of explicit, outspoken religious testimony. most left-wing zionist jews either dismiss that as a claim entirely, or see it as part of a broader constellation of circumstances including arguments from historical necessity, unbroken jewish presence in the land, historical kingdom of israel, arab antisemitism, etc.

in my experience*, i really shouldn't speak for other ppl

small portions of twitter appeared perturbed that bernie described himself as the child of 'polish immigrants'

― mookieproof, Wednesday, February 10, 2016 1:41 PM (2 minutes ago)

this small segment of ilx is pleased

what is the zionist case against bernie?

says he doesn't like bibi, has criticized israel for aggressiveness, named Larry Korb, James Zogby, and J Street as his israel advisors, etc

ew Zogby

i've heard (but not substantiated myself) that he didn't want to arm israel in 1973

this is really not the thread for it but i just cannot fathom the idea of being a left-wing zionist. i don't disbelieve mordy that that could exist but "arguments from historical necessity, unbroken jewish presence in the land, historical kingdom of israel, arab antisemitism, etc." don't strike me as having much to do with what i understand as the Left, or at least don't have any special compatibility with the left vs. the right that would trump the leftist insistence on social and economic justice, the critique of domination, colonialism and military force etc. etc. or does "left-wing" here mean Democrats? sincere question but again maybe for another thread.

yeah wouldn't that have been awful

xp

that is a question for another thread but yeah I think left-wing there means lefty on other non-Israel related issues

xp

yes, probably? 1973 is when egypt launched a surprise attack on israel during yom kippur that PM golda meir considered at the time to be an existential threat to the nation xp

and yeah, left-wing does not necessarily imply post-colonialism, tho i think a post-colonialism case for the jewish state is not very difficult to make but this is not really the thread for it

I have some in my family fwiw

Mordy otm re: 1973. I'm hardly a zionist myself but Israel was quite clearly not the aggressor there

xp

left-centrist orthodox jewry voting for Donald Trump does not compute

Is Trump the only candidate with Orthodox grand-kids?

just - i know this is one of my favorite topics to discuss but i'll point out that the Labour party in Israel is a left-wing Zionist party. but i'm not clear that ppl really know what Zionism means in 2016? like it seems like a lot of ppl talk about Zionism like Gamergaters talk about Feminism.

xp yes! and the only candidate with an Orthodox daughter. but Hillary has Jewish grandkids.

these are the strangest primaries in living memory.

if i didn't live here, i would be following them more closely for entertainment value.

but... that speech he gave. It was basically "I love you money-lenders!"

xxp

i think he praised the crowd for their business savvy. idk, i can't imagine ever voting for trump in my life so i can't tell you what motivates someone who would. maybe they feel like he's enough a part of the mishpacha to get a pass?

these are the strangest primaries in living memory.

There's been ONE! One.

what the hell, from that Daily Caller link above:

In the overall delegate count, Clinton holds a commanding lead after a razor-thin victory in Iowa and a shellacking in New Hampshire. Clinton has 394 delegates, both super and electorally assigned, to only 42 for Sanders.

again, did you people this was a democracy? it's a sham of a fraud of a farce of a sham.

they're counting already committed SuperDelegates fyi

and those superdelegates are not guaranteed and can change their mind

fair enough morbs, "the strangest lead-up to and beginning of the primaries in living memory"

There's nothing in the Constitution that says anything about how political parties can select their nominees. If you don't like the process, start your own party!

some/most superdelegates can switch tho, right xxxxp

yes, that essentially hasn't happened in 160 years tho xp

i think historically the superdelegates shift over to the repeated vote winner. but who knows!!

There's nothing in the Constitution that says anything about how political parties can select their nominees. If you don't like the process, start your own party!

^^^

https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Gk_EU_t4aWPjFq_clWkY3iPx5IE=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6026941/Bernie_loop__1_.0.gif

THE HIGH SMOOCH

part of the lie about Bernie Sanders "revolution" stuff is that he clearly has no interest in breaking two-party hegemony - which is the root of a lot of our structural problems (we would be much better served by parliamentary/proportional style representation imo, "more like Europe" lol)

xp

xp I loved that hoops clip!

xps if they were counting "already-committed supers" from other states those numbers make much more sense, carry on

yay just start your own party, it's easy! yay

basically plutocrats wouldn't find our democracy so easy to control if the two-party system didn't make it so simple

bernie grew up in brooklyn in the 50s-60s so i'm sure he hooped as a kid but his form is decidedly not bad for a 74-year old dude. i can definitely imagine him in a YMCA pickup game

can't believe he LIED this isn't a "revolution"!

going to re-think if Obama really promised "HOPE" or if he LIED too.