I will keep doing, but not worth it! The 2016 Presidential Primary Voting Thread

You're right sleepingbag, that's why he's in a bad mood

I'm just so sick of this guy

OMG SO OVER BERNIE

I mean, he's had almost 30 years to get the ball rolling on any of the things he talks about yet he has no record of accomplishing anything in the system...

― • (sleepingbag), Friday, February 12, 2016 3:10 AM (5 minutes ago)

see also: hillary clinton

I like Bernie. I like Hillary. Watching this debate though, I don't get the feeling that one is any more straightforward, blunt or honest than the other. If that's the selling point for Bernie, I don't hear it tonight. It sounds like two careful, well-rehearsed, skillful politicians trying to present themselves in the best light, being evasive and telling half-truths when the situation requires it. Hey, it's politics!

Except one of them signed off on W's Iraq War, just a tiny little detail

Related to nothing going on, but I just remembered that jebbush.com redirects to trump's website. That is still one of the funniest things of this entire election.

That was enough for me in 2008, but now, eight years late, that doesn't feel like the decisive issue it felt like then. Maybe I've just forgotten how totally screwed up that whole situation was. Also, I felt like Obama was a lot more electable in 2008 than Bernie is now.

xp

Bernie needed to have a better showing than this, if anyone in SC or NV is watching

Sanders is of course a politician and of course thinks about his messaging. I think he comes off as relatively honest and straightforward for a politician because of things like having the cojones to call himself a "democratic socialist" when dems have been running away from such associations for decades. Also because he just doesn't even try to pull off the whole "I boned up on foreign policy so I could give good debate answers" schtick. But he's still playing some kind of game, you can't not and get this far.

Whoa! That exchange will be what's remembered from tonight.

Bernie just said that he's proud that he's not a friend of Henry Kissinger. Don't know if the electorate will care about it that much but so glad he said it.

yeah, stuff like that, exactly

"Not my kind of guy"--that was pretty great.

not my kind of guy lol

feel the bern

my grandmother would have enjoyed that line

hell yes

cant tell if hrc showcasing her foreign policy cred inspires confidence or channel flipping (bc i dont understand america at all in this election p much)

I don't remember Kissinger coming up in previous debates, unless I missed it. Clinton seemed quite unprepared.

if Bernie can get himself a tailor to make him a male version of that spacesuit Hillary's wearing he wins the next debate

My grandfather is cheering from the grave. I feel like this whole campaign was worth it just to hear Kissinger dissed in a national democratic presidential debate.

I don't remember Kissinger coming up in previous debates, unless I missed it. Clinton seemed quite unprepared.

― clemenza, Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:36 PM (21 seconds ago)

hillary referred to herself as kissinger's favorite secretary of state or something

I think a lot of people's eyes glaze over when hrc starts verbally globetrotting but even if they're not listening closely they get this general sense of, "lady knows her shit"

(xpost) Right, now I remember--I don't think Sanders followed up. He picked his spot tonight.

My family left Chile in the wake of the coup. Kissinger's not my kind of guy either.

that was basically my reaction and im "informed" as much as a lay person can be

xxp

I thought Bernie was going to say he went to a Turkish bath

are they going to do more town halls? the vibe was so much groovier than this

as awesome as that was to hear, i think it goes without saying that anyone who cheered the kissinger diss was already voting for bernie

I hear that Cordell Hull, Cyrus Vance, and Edmund Muskie have yet to endorse anyone.

I think a lot of people's eyes glaze over when hrc starts verbally globetrotting but even if they're not listening closely they get this general sense of, "lady knows her shit"

― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Friday, February 12, 2016 3:37 AM (7 minutes ago)

haha yep

Bernie's mood is actually improving with each Hillary attack!

as awesome as that was to hear, i think it goes without saying that anyone who cheered the kissinger diss was already voting for bernie

― Karl Malone, Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:43 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think it does zero for his campaign, but it might do a little to dent Kissinger's legacy, and I also think it kind of metaphysically disrupts a certain kind of consensus you get in mainstream national politics, like he made a little ripple in the simulacra or something.

it certainly made me less grumpy!

That sanctimonious Obama stuff was Clinton at her absolute worst.

yeah, what man alive said. like it's the equivalent of wishing somebody, anybody at the national level had been willing to puncture all the reagan hagiography going on since, well, since ever but especially since his death. or like how a lot of ilx brits seemed to feel it was important, when thatcher died, not to give it a day "out of respect" or whatever. kissinger is a war criminal and is going to get away with it but at least there's some hope that his rep as "elder statesman" will someday be overturned in the c.w. the only bummer thing about sanders's response is that he stopped at cambodia.

I bet you can order a Kissinger "Not My Kind of Guy" T-shirt online already.

even with the cambodia thing, though, josh marshall's (who i feel represents a sort of typical left of center view) comment was just "Sander's has a pretty [sic] point here on Kissinger. But man, this is a serious time warp on the bombing of Cambodia"

I just saw a tweet that his campaign just released a 1000-word memo about kissinger -- bet that goes into more than Cambodia. Half of me thinks this is brilliant in a crazy sort of way -- going hard after something that no one in politics would think could be a vulnerability in 2016.

sanders on kissinger, quote edition:

"I happen to believe that Henry Kissinger was one of the most destructive secretaries of state in the modern history of this country."
"I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend. I will not take advice from Henry Kissinger."

"Well, I know journalists have asked who you do listen to on foreign policy and we have yet to know who that is," Clinton said.

"Well, it ain't Henry Kissinger, that's for sure," Sanders quipped.

so good! i hope i'm wrong about thinking that no one's gonna really care too much about Kissinger

i think its p good strategy, attacking a strength (hrc's foreign policy) and turning it into a weakness. she's deflecting it p well tho, basically treating the kissinger thing as realpolitik necessity and downplaying the iraq war vote as old news and showing where she and sanders aligned on previous issues.

http://noahscomedypalace.blogspot.com/2009/07/seinfeld-and-buddy-rich-tapes.html?m=1

interesting that sanders resists mentioning the fact he'd be the first jewish prez in the us, just a vague allusion to "somebody of my background"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCjQbTEuoDU

I love where Clinton reaches for her pen at the 30-second mark and appears to draw a circle or something. I want that piece of paper.

interesting that sanders resists mentioning the fact he'd be the first jewish prez in the us, just a vague allusion to "somebody of my background"

xp it looks like she just draws three lines. Strike throughs?

Maybe underlining something like "now's the part where I should mock him on not having foreign policy advisors"