I will keep doing, but not worth it! The 2016 Presidential Primary Voting Thread

interesting that sanders resists mentioning the fact he'd be the first jewish prez in the us, just a vague allusion to "somebody of my background"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCjQbTEuoDU

I love where Clinton reaches for her pen at the 30-second mark and appears to draw a circle or something. I want that piece of paper.

interesting that sanders resists mentioning the fact he'd be the first jewish prez in the us, just a vague allusion to "somebody of my background"

xp it looks like she just draws three lines. Strike throughs?

Maybe underlining something like "now's the part where I should mock him on not having foreign policy advisors"

had this feeling.. on the one hand, i pretty much agree with sanders re kissinger, what he said about history of overthrowing governments, but on the other hand, i don't exactly study foreign policy and holy cow he would get destroyed in the general election

by...?

I sort of feel like he's savvier than to launch into a rant like that while debating Cruz or Trump? I hope so anyway.

i don't even want to think about the prospect of any of those GOP guys winning

but anytime you launch into a rant cruz or trump and their $$$$ and super pacs have it on tape already to play over and over

You don't need to invoke the spectre of Kissinger when Cruz is standing across stage from you

well I don't really think talking about Cambodia is a play-on-repeat type moment, it's more just a headscratcher for the average voter.

let em, good rants > "I'm a WINNAH" to the plurality of nonidiots voting in November

xxp

what was Hil's #1 claim to progressivism tonight?

cruz will prob show up to the next debate wearing a kissinger t-shirt

I love where Clinton reaches for her pen at the 30-second mark and appears to draw a circle or something. I want that piece of paper.

http://i.imgur.com/V0ewmtR.jpg

loool

That circle was the "O" for Obama, wasn't it xxp

For much of the debate, I thought Clinton was fine, and I'm not a fan. But I just hated the way she handled the Obama charge at the end--especially the way she timed it so Sanders' response would effectively forfeit his closing statement. And if you know how innocuous his cover blurb (hardly a foreword) for the Bill Press book is, she's being incredibly disingenuous there.

I think that's Peter Boyle in Young Frankenstein!

NYT headline: Clinton Paints Sanders's Ideas as Unrealistic in Punchy Debate

feel like they queued that one up at 5pm and then went out for a night on the town

You don't need to invoke the spectre of Kissinger when Cruz is standing across stage from you

― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Thursday, February 11, 2016 11:17 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I mean, you certainly could! Cruz loves the idea of bombing people. May as well point out that the idea of bombing people as a solution to all problems has enormous consequences (such as, you kill a whole bunch of people) and just leads to more horrors. The Iraq War is obviously fresher in people's minds but no reason Sanders can't say, y'know, "as a young man, I watched three presidential administrations drop more and more bombs on Vietnam, and on Laos and Cambodia, more bombs than all the ones used in World War II, and we may have killed over a million people. What we got for it was a tragic end to the war, and a dictatorship in Cambodia, but some politicians in Washington got to pat themselves on the back for all the casualties they were inflicting with their 'carpet bombing.' Well, count me out."

xpost i mean i was thinking more about sanders talking about the US supporting the shah in iran and then about the US history of overthrowing foreign governments. what struck me at that point was, 1) i hear you, i get it. but 2) what i can imagine right now is attack ads clipping the part that is rant-y about the US overthrowing foreign governments and running that everywhere. because if the GOP took obama's words and twisted them into "he's apologizing for america" (which is garbage obvs), think of what they'll do with this material, and there's probably a massive backlog of sanders on tape saying similar. that's what i worry about.

that would work dc! I just mean that cruz is not exactly a closeted warmonger, so you don't need to point to his mentors to "out" that aspect of him

hrc may be in favor of making sand glow from time to time, but she's not boasting of it

xp

She will if she debates Cruz

Yeah, the Sanders-on-tape backlog would be a legit problem - I mean, as his fans have demonstrated, the C-SPAN archives appear to be rich with him ranting at assholes on the floor of Congress, but it'd be easy to make that look like a ker-razy liberal. Or just a ker-razy old man. He's unhinged, he's dangerous, he's foaming at the mouth!

btw my fanfic Sanders debate lines vs. ted cruz obviously need a lot of work but i would also add that when he mentions the politicians in Washington, he should throw in something about how their kids are not over there fighting, etc. etc. think that'd get some applause. just for the record.

xps to daria

ordinarily, i'd have that same worry, but i'm basically throwing most of my CW out the window this election. if cruz or trump attack on those grounds, i think trump can be easily countered because he's so clueless on foreign policy and cruz can, too, but on different grounds (do an update on the LBJ "daisy" ad). i just think given the weakness of the gop frontrunners that sanders' flaws are not fatal (and i think he'll be able to shore them up before a general election).

his greatest strength vis-a-vis that stuff is he won't even try to walk away from it. He has this way of fully and confidently owning his views that is pretty rare, and I think that's a lot of what people respond to.

(basically imo all of sanders weaknesses are even weaker for trump, incl foreign policy, "unreasonableness", anger, backlog of damning video, etc) xp again

btw Clinton has also said she considered the Mubaraks personal friends

Begala says that Sanders' "You're not in the White House yet" line (and the handful of boos) will be the clip that emerges from this. It was awkward, yes--although if you watch the lead-in, Clinton does say "once I'm in the White House" like it's just a formality. Anyway, the Kissinger exchange will be the lead surely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcnv_3GYvk4

I get a vibe that she's not too happy to have to treat him as a serious opponent

a few months ago i'd have said "there's no way in hell trump would ever be nominated" but i suppose we're far past the time when you could say that.. idk i still think this will never happen but if i were to imagine how a general election would play out with a fascist misogynist racist jerk business guy vs a rant-y socialist, well, there's no question which side i'm on but i'm worried that.. it won't be difficult for the GOP to make sanders look like the scarier option

the thing with sanders' flaws and whatever oppo they dig up is, everything is going to seem like news and hashed out through the media and they're going to be the way he gets introduced nationally because he just isn't all that well known right now, while everybody knows who trump is

yeah, that is one concern I have in a Trump-Sanders contest, you can't really "dig up" stuff on Mr. You're Fired/the guy who has gotten 10x the media coverage of every other candidate on either side.

i think others have outlined the weakness of a trump candidacy, but i don't think it's necessary to have an arsenal of oppo research to take him down. if there's a middle of the road candidate trying to decide between the two, appeal to sanders' experience (and trump's entire lack of), attack trump's record of bankruptcies, attack his blatant racism, play his horrific greatest hits on repeat for several months and completely undermine him. he's got very shaky "true" conservative support, many of whom would vote 3rd party or stay home if it was sanders v trump.

i'm just trying to figure out which obama states trump would flip. ohio?

I get a vibe that she's not too happy to have to treat him as a serious opponent

― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:49 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

her and her husband have had a sneering disdain for liberals and radicals since their college days, so yes she probably has this sense of peeved déjà vu.

donald trump becoming president is terrifying. (i have visions of him bungling foreign policy so badly that there's effectively a coup against him.) if we get close to a point where it seems like he's gonna get the nomination, i think clinton running on "i can definitely defeat trump, sanders can't" is gonna be hella persuasive.

i'm kind of shockd that a major sex scandal hasn't already rocked trump -- he's a famous womanizer, he's a sneering cad, there's got to be some awful skeletons in his closet, no?

i just think the democrats could run a family of possums stuffed in a gym bag and beat trump, he's a truly awful general election candidate

I missed this joy from earlier

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/ted-cruz-ad-porn-actress-219170

im looking at the 2012 map and there are a few states that were decided by a fewer than 5% margin of victory.

obama's were ohio, florida, colorado (barely), virginia
romney had north carolina

gop would have to swing all those obama states (and keep nc) to win. trump ain't winning colorado.

if cruz is the nominee, it's hard to see him winning ohio. florida, maybe.

Trump or Cruz is not winning Florida.

skimming that paglia thing, i realize she reminds me of this line from the pilot of twin peaks, in re. weathermen:"Diane, if you can get paid to be wrong 50 percent of the time … now that's working!"

The GOP convention is the third week of July. The vote is in November. I feel very comfortable in saying that Cruz or Trump would say a number of things in that amazing span of time to really turn off most of the general voting population, whether or not this country is center right or it isn't.

Of course, George W. Bush took the medal not once, but twice. So, who even fucking knows.

george w. was just bumbling, he'd be the moderate candidate running right now

like, he was a term and a half governor of a giant state and son of a former pres. he was the "compassionate conservative", "uniter, not a divider". ppl liked him. trump and cruz are wholly different political animals.

Trump or Cruz is not winning Florida.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, February 11, 2016 11:26 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i legitimately trust your judgment on all things florida, so this makes it even more of a shut case for the dems

Trump even tries to show his ass in O-Town, I'ma flatten him with a golf cart

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca_VGjeWEAAplCO.png

makes u think