I will keep doing, but not worth it! The 2016 Presidential Primary Voting Thread

the Lobster works WILLIAMSBURG

http://gawker.com/i-watched-bill-clinton-not-play-the-saxophone-at-a-bowl-1759877462

idk this is all so hypothetical Morbz otm this plan has no chance of passage etc.

The 1% aren't the only ones getting screwed this election season

http://berniesingles.com

― mookieproof, Thursday, February 18, 2016 5:45 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

loooool

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I mean UC tuition is insane - some kid from a state with shittier schools could conceivably get into UC and not pay a dime, while no one from CA goes to their state's shitty schools, and CA taxpayers end up footing the bill.

― Οὖτις, Thursday, February 18, 2016 10:48 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the current system is admitting larger amounts of out of state kids and charging them through the nose for out of state tuition to help subsidize in-state tuition.

I know, this plan sounds like it would reverse that - I'm sure that would be a big hit with CA voters

In my state graduation rates have been so connected to "performance metrics"

the current system is admitting larger amounts of out of state kids and charging them through the nose for out of state tuition to help subsidize in-state tuition.

― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries),

the Chronicle of Higher Ed runs this article, like, twice a month.

guys we crashed the Bernie dating site

I thought the whole idea of attaching the strings was that tuition would come down. both to keep the fund from being milked but also because the tuition is too damn high. i do agree that the in-state/out-of-state thing has real political wrinkles to it.

Trump thinking he can go head-to-head with the Holy Father is the most insane political calculation I expect to see in my lifetime. The Catholic vote isn't what it used to be, but burning that bridge is madness

Seriously. Maybe he'll start calling for a renewal of Prohibition just to see what he can't get away with. Rum, Romanism and Rubio.

It'll be super cool when tuition is free but all the professors are adjuncts who can't pay their bills.

States will need to maintain spending on their higher education systems, on academic instruction, and on need-based financial aid. In addition, colleges and universities must reduce their reliance on low-paid adjunct faculty.

Where will the money come from?

Wall St speculation tax is the story. Free tuition definitely works in some countries (generally, afaik, ones with more streaming of students and more apprenticeships, with fewer students going to uni in the first place). I just don't see how it could be implemented in the US at the federal level.

I'd rather see universal healthcare and universal not-shitty high school before I start worrying about free college tuition.

you may be aware of this but sanders has also mentioned universal healthcare offhandedly, once or twice

I don't believe I suggested otherwise. This conversation appears to be about the feasibility and wisdom of the college idea, though...

universal not-shitty high school

yeah this would be nice. and the feds have more leverage here too iirc.

Not anymore thank you Arne Duncan.

Doesn't Sanders' plan necessitate speculation?

well, they have more leverage in terms of funding - the cost/tuition issue is obviously totally different for universities

xp

High school has to be one of the areas where the feds have the least control, right? It's all your local property tax dollars at work, no?

Re: health care and education - if Sanders were president and push was coming to shove and it looked like he was going to be able to pass one thing this term, then yeah, I say health care too, no contest. But given that it's a pie-in-the-sky candidacy meant to shift the Overton window etc. etc., does lobbying for one somehow damage lobbying for the other?

I'd actually argue the reverse: hawking a complete package of amazing socialist programs makes all of them more likely to become part of the conversation going forward from now - each benefits from the larger sense that this is not about pushing for this little tax credit or that little halfway program, but for a comprehensive shift in what we're looking to get out of our government, and what we think the economy and the income inequality chart should actually look like. A "new deal" of cards, if you will. If Sanders was a one-issue candidate just talking about health care, he'd probably still get some attention, but the "movement" such as it is would not be coalescing and nobody who actually gets elected would feel the slightest obligation to do anything about these other cases of institutionalized inequality and wealth extraction.

It's all your local property tax dollars at work, no?

my kids aren't in high school yet so all I know is that our k-9 school benefited hugely from injections of federal money - presumably more of that is always better. that's all I was saying. I didn't mean leverage as far as changing curriculums or whatever (which, tbh, I'm less interested). Dumping money into basic primary/hs education just seems like a better deal than this harebrained tuition scheme.

it looked like he was going to be able to pass one thing this term, then yeah, I say health care too, no contest.

argggh we already had one president do this and imo he should've picked climate change/energy legislation as the hill to die on, would suck to see Sanders make the same choice

Trump insulting the Pope is like something out of a ZAZ movie. You just can't make that up.

My bad, I thought the hypothetical choice milo z offered was only between those three!

a pie-in-the-sky candidacy meant to shift the Overton window etc.

But, I mean, he more or less tied the first caucus, handily won the first primary, and looks competitive for the third, right? Grassroots movement no one took seriously a year ago, anything could happen, etc., etc. Left-leaning governments that end up unexpectedly winning on pie-in-the-sky platforms can set their cause back.

(Tbc, I've been teaching at a US university since August so I'm trying to follow this seriously, not carping from another country.)

looks competitive for the third

*second

argggh we already had one president do this and imo he should've picked climate change/energy legislation as the hill to die on, would suck to see Sanders make the same choice

― Οὖτις,

Dude, really? As "small term" political gain and simple human decency, it made the best sense. People are alive thanks to the ACA.

I'd actually argue the reverse: hawking a complete package of amazing socialist programs makes all of them more likely to become part of the conversation going forward from now - each benefits from the larger sense that this is not about pushing for this little tax credit or that little halfway program, but for a comprehensive shift in what we're looking to get out of our government, and what we think the economy and the income inequality chart should actually look like

ehhhh I don't know. Do you live in a state with a GOP governor and a GOP supermajority? The only way in which I see these policies becoming part of the conversation is if student activism scares the shit out of lobbyists and legislators.

Rubio also going against the Pope's words; but Rubio, as far as I can tell, is only Catholic for show, since he also attends some evangelical church and was also a Mormon; also he's Cuban so it's not like he has any sense of what immigration is like for people from Mexico.

this Pope shit is temporary. Trump said what he needed to in a state where (a) the pope's already loathed by conservatives (b) evangelicals vote.

Hey, I got an idea! Let's give everyone free college and make Mexico pay for it

Dude, really? As "small term" political gain and simple human decency, it made the best sense. People are alive thanks to the ACA.

multiple millions of people are gonna die from climate change, and it's a time-sensitive issue - the longer we fuck around, the worse the death toll is gonna be. so yeah.

xxp

I mean just on the scale of people affected - ACA affects Americans, climate change affects the species

As a Florida resident, I'm not at all disagreeing with your premise. But people I know are alive now thanks to the Affordable Care Act.

depends how we define "the conversation" - i definitely don't imagine that GOP state legislators are about to start hyping up socialized medicine! i realize i've beaten this horse into the ground but for me this is all about what it becomes possible to say on TV, what it becomes possible to run on, what it becomes possible for someone to put in a bill and not have most of the country think it sounds un-american. i love the idea of millions of high school seniors casting their first vote, even if it's just in the primaries, for the socialist hawking universal health care, an end to college debt encumbrance, a battle on climate change, solutions for the criminal justice system *AND* breaking the political power of the .1%.

again i'm kind wacked out and crazy right now but y'all are kinda sounding like a republican cartoon mocking bernie for promising all his "free stuff" to greedy "takers" and slacker kids. another thing this is about shifting the paradigm so that the values that lay behind that caricature are exposed as defense mechanisms of the rich and powerful. i dunno. i should get back to writing this mess of a paper, sorry again for the bugged-out quality of my posts.

SCOTUS decision about coal plants notwithstanding, the Obama administration's been solid in lots of ways with executive orders and shifts of emphasis.

again i'm kind wacked out and crazy right now but y'all are kinda sounding like a republican cartoon mocking bernie for promising all his "free stuff" to greedy "takers" and slacker kids.

lol what

At its most basic "a bill that keeps insurance companies from denying you coverage because of your diabetes" vs "We're going to shut down coal plants, forbid offshore drilling, and invest billions into fuel that leaves no carbon imprint" is a political non-starter. Besides, why do we have to choose?

Left-leaning governments that end up unexpectedly winning on pie-in-the-sky platforms can set their cause back.

this sounds like syriza to me but i'm curious to hear some other examples of this phenomenon you may have in mind?

tbh I don't see a lot of Republicans spending any time mocking Bernie, none of them see him as a credible threat.

Besides, why do we have to choose?

I think in general there are few opportunities where a President really has the opportunity to make huge, sweeping legislation happen. It has to be in his 1st or 2nd year of his first term, and he has to have a cooperative Congress. If a President is going to tackle a fundamental issue during that window, then a lot of the President's political capital is going to get expended, capital that might not be available later on (after mid-term elections, for example). There is a limited amount of time and energy that can be expended to deal with these kinds of huge issues, and that's why it usually comes down to one thing. How long did it take to get ACA passed? It will go down in history as his biggest legislative accomplishment. And he only really got one. He picked healthcare cuz he accepted the argument about it being a fundamental drag on the economy - but I had arguments with people at the time that climate change was a more fundamental, urgent issue, and it's clear Obama didn't agree w me.

xp

xxpost ok i admit i have no idea now which specific posts made me think that

Trump thinking he can go head-to-head with the Holy Father is the most insane political calculation I expect to see in my lifetime. The Catholic vote isn't what it used to be, but burning that bridge is madness

― tremendous crime wave and killing wave (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, February 18, 2016 6:09 PM (1 hour ago)

trump has no long-term plan beyond shocking and insulting his way to the nomination. and the number of liberal catholic trump GOP primary voters is pretty tiny anyway. don't see how it hurts him in the short term

it won't hurt him at all in South Carolina

In the long term theyre already working on a smaller needleeye for him to not pass through

Like I said, evangelicals hate the pople.

the pope too