Il Douché and His Discontents: The 2016 Primary Voting Thread, Part 4

xp re: DJP's link

The writer of that piece makes her point very well and it was a point worth making. She used Sanders' answer in the debate as a springboard from which to propel the reader toward her point. But this is a fairly normal case of a writer shaping the discourse more to make her point than to describe exactly what Sanders said and the circumstances in which it was said.

tbf, she does start her piece recognizing the flaws in the question before moving on to the flaws in Bernie's answer, but there is little recognition that the candidates onstage must absorb the question and form their answers at once and on the fly, while the writer has the luxury of time to form many thoughts, examine them, reject some, reshape others. This gives her a superior platform from which to chide or correct what was said in haste and under pressure.

She didn't do too badly at limiting her critique to what was fair and honest, but the ILE echo chamber shouldn't be distorting her point as reflecting some important lacunae in Bernie's ideas or positions, but only the lacunae that existed in a particular answer, made on a public stage to a flawed question asked only moments earlier, and answered under a time limit. How well would any of us done in the same circumstances?

^v helpful formulation Aimless, thank you

if you won't believe what police do in certain communities, then you'd be doubly shocked to realize black people get the same treatment or worse outside of those communities!

So much Bernie-splaining in this thread right now, I can't take it. Taking a break. Last thought: It's Bernie who NEEDS to be understood by minority voters, he needs to reach out, and he needs to have some fucking stump answers ready that doesn't mention the word 'ghetto'. It's HIM that needs to be understood, not black or hispanic voters who need to understand him. They're quite happy in this election without him.

God dammit, parsing the response to something unlucky he said, to show that, really, the response isn't totally fair. Good job! Argh

Sorry, promised to take a break. Closing my laptop now. Bye.

buhbye

that wasn't a slam on Sanders, just on the misperception of racism being a class issue. the anecdote about the taxi was meant to be somewhat of a generalization, but leaving in the twenty years ago framing was probably bad

unless the point was "I had a black friend, but it was 20 years ago"

see ya

ty Fred B for that v helpful hand-wringing. it would be nice if Bernie were a superhero and able to run the perfect campaign to overcome all the natural obstacles that exist between him and his election in November. it would be very nice indeed. but I think we'll all just have to live with him as he is. we're somewhat used to imperfect candidates.

imo something can be a partisan over-scrutinization but still make good points, no need to take it literally as a universal gotcha where this is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back of his campaign

http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/4c270d22-401b-4f59-8c4f-ded233f4d64c/13ba1a5c-3069-4c20-aee4-9830ec8d1f36.jpg

Lol left

So much Bernie-splaining in this thread right now, I can't take it. Taking a break. Last thought: It's Bernie who NEEDS to be understood by minority voters, he needs to reach out, and he needs to have some fucking stump answers ready that doesn't mention the word 'ghetto'. It's HIM that needs to be understood, not black or hispanic voters who need to understand him. They're quite happy in this election without him.

― Frederik B, Monday, March 7, 2016 8:18 PM (14 minutes ago)

oh dear god, please stop. just stop.

^ the last words the creator heard before moving on to a new worldbuilding simulator

Fred B's message: he cares

I find most discussion of this subject exhausting tbh, both the micro-parsing of Sanders' language on race and the wheel-spinning by supporters to explain it away. Largely because I just don't think anyone has made a case that Clinton is genuinely better on any of these issues, other than perhaps being better at talking the talk.

this thread now features:

..and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes.

as well as:

oh dear god, please stop. just stop.

RIP Freddy B

imo something can be a partisan over-scrutinization but still make good points, no need to take it literally as a universal gotcha where this is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back of his campaign

― μpright mammal (mh), Monday, March 7, 2016 3:24 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. more analysis, more discussion, less bizarre performative outrage

I was the one most guilty here of getting defensive about Sanders's comments ... which is ironic, given that I was (and remain) critical of it. I was def reacting to a certain "gotcha" vibe that I was getting, that felt to me like it was ignoring context.

Anyhow, I feel like Aimless's & mh's posts upthread tied everything beautifully in a ribbon, and are beautiful formulations of how to think about these things without getting knee-jerky about it.

I'll take that as an ilx happy ending.

um, critical of them

losing my grammar

at least 40% of this is libs with a modicum of conscience self-negotiating around "Christ, i'll have to suck it up and vote for Hillary in November"

brutal moral calculus of living in a swing state

I'm glad, collardio, that there were some white people around to explain the point I was making to you; now if you'll excuse me I need to take these recommendations Mr Bledsoe gave me up to Mr. Emerson's office.

am i wrong to read morbs's mention of "libs" as dripping with contempt?

reminds me of the PLP* member in my high school who after a friendly argument in the student newspaper office, screamed "LIBERAL!" at me as he walked out, expecting i guess that it was the devastating coup de grace.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Labor_Party_%28United_States%29

you're the drip

is this where I admit my position going into the caucuses was "what can I do that would irritate Morbs the most?"

well i took no note tbh

Olympic-level handwaving itt re Bernie's ghetto comments

Yeah no it's fine he totally didnt mean it the way it was *transcribed*

rmde

Cruz is expected to announce the endorsement of "more than four" senators this week

Whoa

So he's up from less than zero

Cruz to announce endorsement of "this many!" senators this week

I bet Trump counts Christie as more than 4 governors

well, that's just the weirdass way that the National Review reported it:

With the prospect of Donald Trump’s nomination looming over the GOP, Cruz is set to unveil endorsements from more than four senators this week, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/432442/ted-cruz-senate-endorsements

the more-than-fourth one is Ted Cruz

Cruz, shockingly, plans to endorse Kasich

there could be dozens of endorsements coming for cruz, we cannot say for sure at this time

Is handwaving the opposite of handwringing srs question

https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/ted-cruz-large.jpg?w=450&h=272

they always claim there are multiple endorsers but it usually turns out to be a lone one

they said the same thing about the zodiac killer

the more-than-fourth one is Ted Cruz

― micro brewbio (crüt), Monday, March 7, 2016 4:53 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lool

would not be surprising if 4 Senators slipped Ted a note to meet them in the cloak room at 3pm for an endorsement and that he should be wear his underwear

tryin to guess who in the Senate hates Trump enough/likes Cruz enough to endorse

first pics of ted cruz arriving at the meeting

https://headinavice.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/casino-cornfield.png?w=900

yeah idgi, I thought all his colleagues hate the guy

you're talking about the party where the four people behind Trump who spent most of a debate talking about how wholly unfit he is to be president turned around and said they would support him as the nominee if he won