Il Douché and His Discontents: The 2016 Primary Voting Thread, Part 4

and then the Democratic wing of the Democratic party can turn its attention to Clinton-Schumer leadership?

They would (will) at least be aware that they're a wing.

I thought we were an aisle?

I know prediction is a fool's errand these days, but I can't ignore the glimmer of hope that Republicans will simultaneously lose the presidency, Senate, and Supreme Court all at once. The schismatic chaos and paroxysms of gnashing teeth and flurry of long-ass think pieces would just be the cherry on top of a magnificent sundae of woe.

― brotato chip (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, March 9, 2016 10:28 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Things would certainly improve, but I can't get over the feeling that the Dems would ultimately fumble that ball.

Let's face it: neither party really knows what it's doing or has much in the way of internal consistency. It's just that the GOP is so much worse, oh my god.

Jon Schwarz ‏@tinyrevolution
1996 GOP platform denounced use of terrorism to justify restriction of civil rights. Oh well http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=25848

"We denounce terrorist attacks made on American citizens at home or abroad. We must take all legitimate steps to swiftly apprehend and severely punish persons committing terrorists acts. However, we must also denounce any attempts to deprive law-abiding citizens of their God-given, constitutionally-protected rights while fighting terrorism. To take away the liberty of the American people while fighting terrorism is repugnant to the history and character of our nation. We firmly oppose any legislation that would infringe upon the rights of American citizens to freedom of religion, speech, press, and assembly; the right to keep and bear arms; and the right to judicial due process."

How credible is the idea that Sanders getting very close to beating Clinton in the primary and it having zero effect on the way she acts as president being a recipe for causing a similar implosion in the Democratic Party? The relief of not having Trump as president being quickly be replaced by anger at Clinton doing nothing for the Sanders constituency of the Democratic Party that helped get her elected? I mean yeah blame it on obstruction from Congress but the success of Sanders in the primary might cause a bloc of the Democratic Party that was previously kind of diffuse to gain a sense of identity that is centered around betrayal of the working class by Clinton?

it would depend how motivated and angry the "Sanders wing" would be, instead of just booting their friends down their stairs when they ask "Would you rather have Trump?"

icymi: http://www.salon.com/2016/03/05/stop_laughing_democrats_as_the_gop_goes_down_in_flames_your_post_bernie_civil_war_is_almost_here/

I did miss that! Thanks.

i haven't read the salon piece in full, but this lines up with what i was going to say: "For the insurgents of the Sanders wing, the question now becomes how many of them are willing to turn to the more difficult and less exciting work of rebuilding democracy from the ground up"

unless Sanders/Warren supporters turn out en masse for the 2018 midterms and help to build progressive momentum around liberal candidates, they can't really throw a tizzy about HRC ignoring them while she's president

This is what frustrates me about the notion that Sanders supporters should take solace in what could amounts to a successful protest candidacy driving issues on the left. You'd have to be an idiot or at best an amnesiac to think HRC is actually going to adopt or even sublimate his core positions.

"could amounts," now who's the idiot

I wonder what the response would be if Sanders somehow manages to eke out more regular delegates than Clinton, but she wins the nomination with superdelegates. It could cause a lot of contentiousness and maybe hobble her candidacy in the general?

It would be kinda nice if the american people (on both sides of the aisle) finally wake up after being dicked over and lied to for 30 years but I dont expect much

If Sanders won more regular delegates but the super delegates flipped it for Clinton it would be catastrophic for everyone involved xp

It would be kinda nice if the american people (on both sides of the aisle) finally wake up after being dicked over and lied to for 30 years but I dont expect much

― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries)

that's why many Republicans are voting for Trump.

Basically you get President Trump in that scenario, also falls into the "so not going to happen" category.

This is what frustrates me about the notion that Sanders supporters should take solace in what could amounts to a successful protest candidacy driving issues on the left. You'd have to be an idiot or at best an amnesiac to think HRC is actually going to adopt or even sublimate his core positions.

speaking seriously + specifically - she is not going to oppose free trade agreements and she isn't going to being an isolationist. that said - she has plenty of things she's campaigning on that she is likely to try and implement in office that will make a material difference in ppl's lives. so the question really becomes what constitutes "core positions."

going to become* an isolationist. i really need to get back into the habit of reviewing posts before i hit submit.

Richard M. Nixon ‏@dick_nixon

I'm still here.

Manu Raju @mkraju
"Every single person who has attacked me has gone down," Trump boasts

actually Richard Nixon died in 1994

just a rumor

Faked it.

bernie is not in any sense an "isolationist"

I agree

For the insurgents of the Sanders wing, the question now becomes how many of them are willing to turn to the more difficult and less exciting work of rebuilding democracy from the ground up"

just wondering what other candidates are being charged with the ludicrous task of "rebuilding democracy from the ground up"

What other candidates are making the case that it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up?

Like its called grassroots bc grass grows from the ground

what if you smoke it

From personal experience I can say you shouldn't try building anything after you smoke grass.

maybe don't take things so literally

You don't understand

you don't understand

Maybe not. Maybe you can rephrase your question? The answer to why Bernie supporters would be charged with rebuilding democracy & not, say, Hillary supporters seems obvious to me.

*slowly reaches toward the smoking grassroots*

What other candidates are making the case that it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up?

― Mordy, Wednesday, March 9, 2016 12:55 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tbh i have no idea what any of the other candidates stand for, if anything, beyond enabling the same old shitshow. so yay for that.

Smells good in here...

what is this "rebuilding democracy" that you keep mentioning? what does that actually mean to you?

it sounds like a pretty vague term that can mean whatever you want it to.

I assume it's a vague reference to the critique made by some Bernie supporters that our democracy is fatally flawed and needs broad systemic changes?

As opposed to maybe more mild reforms that Hillary supports (like reinstating civil rights voting protections).

For the insurgents of the Sanders wing, the question now becomes how many of them are willing to turn to the more difficult and less exciting work of rebuilding democracy from the ground up, and taking the Democratic Party back from the lawyers and technology millionaires and Hollywood executives and foreign-policy apparatchiks who have become its principal proprietors.

oh, i see, it's simply that they want Sanders supporters to dismantle the oligarchy that has controlled society for millenia.

yeah that's a dumb expectation to have. some people say stupid things on the internet.

As opposed to maybe more mild reforms that Hillary supports (like reinstating civil rights voting protections).

ADDRESSING POLITICAL VIOLENCE

We need to re-enfranchise the more than two million African-Americans who have had their right to vote taken away by a felony conviction, paid their debt to society, and deserve to have their rights restored.
Congress must restore the “pre-clearance” formula under the Voting Rights Act, which extended protections to minority voters in states and counties where they were clearly needed.
We must expand the Act’s scope so that every American, regardless of skin color or national origin, is able to vote freely.
We need to make Election Day a federal holiday to increase voters’ ability to participate.
We must make early voting an option for voters who work or study and need the flexibility to vote on evenings or weekends.
We must make no-fault absentee ballots an option for all Americans.
We must automatically register every American to vote when they turn 18 or move to a new state. The burden of registering voters should be on the state, not the individual voter.
We must put an end to discriminatory laws and the purging of minority-community names from voting rolls.
We need to make sure that there are sufficient polling places and poll workers to prevent long lines from forming at the polls anywhere.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

all seems pretty reasonable to me

so, in the case of Chief Executive, you get to choose one of a narrow pool of candidates who are demonstrably capable of raising a billion dollars from the country's worst people. eg the First Primary

xxp

going back to some 1975 rules would be a start (more inclusive than those obviously)

I read that Sanders outspent Hill in MI

Adam those are things are reasonable but hopefully I'm not surprising you by mentioning that Bernie has made a "political revolution" a big part of his campaign whereas Hillary has not.

mordy, you just read the platform. we've had our differences but i know you're smart enough to realize that the "political revolution" stuff is largely a matter of whipping up interest and trying to differentiate himself from HRC

quit focusing on it so much

it's not that hard to understand:

our western market-driven capitalist democracy is fucked
and it needs to be dismantled
and replaced
with something else

versus

modest reforms and hopefully a return to the 90s' neoliberal prosperity!

today in the los angeles times:

"We Mexicans from the areas you report from, the latest being Boyle Heights, my old neighborhood, are not anti-Trump. We are a large group who will vote for Trump regardless of your biased views," she wrote.

"Viva Trump."

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-0309-lopez-trump-supporters-20160309-column.html