Il Douché and His Discontents: The 2016 Primary Voting Thread, Part 4

what's the asshair in this metaphor? wait, nevermind, don't answer.....

the invasion of Iraq and ensuing war on terror shitshow

aka FREEDOM

re: the media and sanders, idk, i haven't actually watched much aside from cnn on primary nights - but all the clinton people i read on blogs/social media complain quite a bit about negative coverage of clinton and that msnbc in particular is in the bag for sanders. i haven't watched a bit of msnbc (i did that in 2008 and i know better) but.. eye of the beholder, i guess?

It's never going to be possible to objectively measure who media is more favorable towards, but in terms of volume of coverage the bias has been pretty clear.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-the-new-york-times-sandbagged-bernie-sanders-20160315?page=2

msnbc in particular is in the bag for sanders

I don't think this is really true, and especially not in the case of Chris Fuckface Matthews who considers Bernie an agitator and a threat. But that's Chris Fuckface Matthews for you.

First, as noted in the Medium piece, they changed the headline. It went from:

Bernie Sanders Scored Victories for Years Via Legislative Side Doors

to:

Via Legislative Side Doors, Bernie Sanders Won Modest Victories

Then they yanked a quote from Bernie's longtime policy adviser Warren Gunnels that read, "It has been a very successful strategy."

They then added the following two paragraphs:

"But in his presidential campaign Mr. Sanders is trying to scale up those kinds of proposals as a national agenda, and there is little to draw from his small-ball legislative approach to suggest that he could succeed.

"Mr. Sanders is suddenly promising not just a few stars here and there, but the moon and a good part of the sun, from free college tuition paid for with giant tax hikes to a huge increase in government health care, which has made even liberal Democrats skeptical."

This stuff could have been written by the Clinton campaign. It's stridently derisive, essentially saying there's no evidence Bernie's "small-ball" approach (I guess Republicans aren't the only ones not above testicular innuendo) could ever succeed on the big stage.

cannot get over the optics of that trump speech/presser/whatever where he's at the podium with three or four smirking white guys in suits, one of whom has just had an assault charge filed against him by a female journalist

xpost i think we are in vigorous agreement on the terribleness of chris matthews

i am sad about sanders losses tonight

to be honest, though, right now i am just more concerned with trump's rise. i don't think he has a chance of winning but i am dreading eight more months of this nightmare carnival

sanders more or less performed exactly how the polls predicted he would -- outperformed them a little, maybe

cannot get over the optics of that trump speech/presser/whatever where he's at the podium with three or four smirking white guys in suits, one of whom has just had an assault charge filed against him by a female journalist

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/03/15/donald_trump_brings_controversial_campaign_manager_onstage_with_him.html

i guess it's like a million media cycles ago now but trump's comments about shooting muslims with bullets dripped in pigs' blood -- you know, in order to desecrate their corpses in the eyes of islamic custom -- should disqualify him from the presidency. he often says we fight in a way that is too "politically correct," like we should try to humiliate our opponents or cause gratuitous harm to them instead of just aiming to defeat them. trump is a piece of shit and as little as i thought of the republican party the fact that every republican politician isn't vigorously denouncing him right now just blows my fucking mind

phew! I just submitted a paper proposal for a fall conference one minute before the deadline!

was simultaneously listening to npr. overheard bits of sanders's shpiel. man how does this old dude stay so fired up!?

reminds me of my grandmother, who never stopped railing at injustice.

otm treeship

like, what would they do if he was an actual neo-nazi or something? how far could he go?

trump has this whole weird relationship to disgust: he's obsessed with bodily fluids. I'm sure it's been written about somewhere.

The most depressing takeaways for me in this election have to do with just how much the media and the professional class on the dem side of the aisle seem to have abandoned the working class and economic issues, and how pained they seem at the thought of having to take someone like Sanders seriously, and how strong their grip still is in spite of a populist turn in politics. I don't think it's just a matter of "media conspiracy" that Sanders hasn't gotten more coverage, I think a lot of it is intuitive class sympathies and alignments among the media -- Clinton is the candidate to take seriously because she's like them, Sanders just so obviously isn't. Very much felt this in my own workplace -- highly intelligent people making actually not very sophisticated arguments for why obviously Clinton was the right choice and Sanders was clearly a joke. That depresses me, and the fact that we couldn't quite reach breakaway speed with a campaign that ran against that depresses me, although it was such an unlikely campaign to begin with that it's amazing it got this far.

Now we'll probably get four years of Clinton, during which she'll act nominally progressive but not deliver anything real on economic policies, and as a recession batters her already polarizing presidency, we'll be primed for another Republican in 2020.

― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Tuesday, March 15, 2016 11:07 PM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh for god's sakes, could it just be that Bernie didn't have a broad appeal to begin with? or that his campaign failed to deliver on numerous points? I dislike HRC as much as the other guy, and I'm typing this from the warmth of a country with rather responsible banks and single payer health care, I know what he stands for is good. But if Bernie really wants to create the very much needed movement/political revolution, his supporters and himself need to stop blaming this vague 'elitism'. There was a hole bunch of problems whit his campaigns: his numbers didn't work, he couldn't get the southern vote, he never offered a precise vision of america's place in the world, and his political revolution rhetoric rang bizarre after Obama's hope campaign pretty much crashed on congress's reality. I was really quite excited about him for a while, his presence was much welcomed, and yes somehow I would still prefer him over HRC. However, the whole narrative of him being the underdog AND the victim is just too easy, too easy. This is about becoming the president, it is not about not wanting other people to become presidents. I feel like he should be above that.

bernie supporters have a real opportunity to turn their attentions down ticket and win primaries + races throughout the country. i hope they don't decide to drop out of politics bc they're disappointed, or worse vote for trump.

his political revolution rhetoric rang bizarre after Obama's hope campaign pretty much crashed on congress's reality.

this makes no sense. the political revolution rhetoric -- the idea that progressives need to energize new voters, re-take congress, stick to a bolder vision -- is a response to the fact that obama's message of bipartisanship "crashed and burned" due to an obstructionist congress

mordy otm

Oh for god's sakes, could it just be that Bernie didn't have a broad appeal to begin with? or that his campaign failed to deliver on numerous points? I dislike HRC as much as the other guy, and I'm typing this from the warmth of a country with rather responsible banks and single payer health care, I know what he stands for is good. But if Bernie really wants to create the very much needed movement/political revolution, his supporters and himself need to stop blaming this vague 'elitism'. There was a hole bunch of problems whit his campaigns: his numbers didn't work, he couldn't get the southern vote, he never offered a precise vision of america's place in the world, and his political revolution rhetoric rang bizarre after Obama's hope campaign pretty much crashed on congress's reality. I was really quite excited about him for a while, his presence was much welcomed, and yes somehow I would still prefer him over HRC. However, the whole narrative of him being the underdog AND the victim is just too easy, too easy. This is about becoming the president, it is not about not wanting other people to become presidents. I feel like he should be above that.

― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, March 16, 2016 12:09 AM (1 minute ago)

he is "above that" in that whatever position you're somehow imputing to him you've probably gotten from a supporter on social media

now, can we get a moratorium on berniesplainers from europe, FFS?

he never offered a precise vision of america's place in the world

How about simply a country among others for once.

like it or not the role the US plays as a defensive umbrella for countries for throughout the world has a great deal to do w/ the ongoing relative geopolitical stability. i don't think "simply a country among others" cuts it.

Change on the scale Bernie's touting doesn't happen from the top down. It's a complete reorientation of the American political identity. For that, you need "socialists" in city and state governments. You need more than just him in congress. If you put him in the White House without a support system of any kind, socialism in America will be cooked for more generations than we'll be alive to count. It'll be "oh we tried that and it was a disaster!"

Bernie supporters don't want to put in the work and seem to have a weird view of how much one person can do (remember Obama? he actually had a congress that liked him for two years! Bernie probably wouldn't have that...ever).

i guess it's like a million media cycles ago now but trump's comments about shooting muslims with bullets dripped in pigs' blood -- you know, in order to desecrate their corpses in the eyes of islamic custom -- should disqualify him from the presidency

yes but this is a country that is already droning and oops-droning Muslims daily for 13 years now and the democratic candidate voted to kick that whole thing off.

bernie supporters clearly have a ton of energy and passion + the ironic thing is that down ticket races are both extraordinarily important to ppl's everyday real life and much easier to impact through the actions + outreach of a small group of activists than the potus race.

Unlike, say, Rubio, Sanders is not going anywhere, and now he has a much bigger, and much more mainstream, audience for his views, which in turn could inspire copycat candidates, or at least candidates not too chickenshit to embrace their leftist instincts. At the least, while he's going to lose the nomination, he's been very good for our democracy, and it's an important salve for the rise of Trump, knowing there is just as much passion in the opposite corner.

like it or not the role the US plays as a defensive umbrella for countries for throughout the world

And other countries have their own sets of problems. If there was a specific criticism of Sanders' foreign policy there, I didn't see it.

eg i feel like facebooking type initiatives could make a big difference on smaller margin seats xxp

Bernie supporters don't want to put in the work

You sure about this?

remember Obama? he actually had a congress that liked him for two years! Bernie probably wouldn't have that...ever

lol i don't remember that i do remember them yelling "you lie!" to Obama, interrupting a presidential address.

a defeated GOP is going to give Hillary even less than any of them. pretty sure they will double down on local and national dirty tricks in response to a Hillary presidency as well.

mordy's FP beliefs are well-known, tim

mordy otm about smaller/downticket races btw. we shall see

Bernie supporters don't want to put in the work

You sure about this?

I don't see a lot of Bernie supporters rallying other people to vote in local and state elections. Just Bernie or bust.

i guess it's like a million media cycles ago now but trump's comments about shooting muslims with bullets dripped in pigs' blood -- you know, in order to desecrate their corpses in the eyes of islamic custom -- should disqualify him from the presidency. he often says we fight in a way that is too "politically correct," like we should try to humiliate our opponents or cause gratuitous harm to them instead of just aiming to defeat them. trump is a piece of shit and as little as i thought of the republican party the fact that every republican politician isn't vigorously denouncing him right now just blows my fucking mind

― Treeship, Tuesday, March 15, 2016 11:03 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this.

all the republican hemming and hawing is meaningless until they say, tout court, that he is not qualified and they won't vote for him. as long as they hedge their bets, they are enabling his rise.

Bernie supporters don't want to put in the work

You sure about this?

seriously, 90% of my wall = Bernie supporters and every one of them voted today, some volunteered, all of them frequently cascading the 'get out the vote' message.

a candidate with the word "socialist" affixed to him always starts with a handicap, so the fact that he's as far as he is, is pretty impressive in itself.

mordy's FP beliefs are well-known

I was referring to VHS' assertion that Sanders "never offered a precise vision of america's place in the world."

I don't see a lot of Bernie supporters rallying other people to vote in local and state elections. Just Bernie or bust.

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Wednesday, March 16, 2016 12:24 AM (48 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

are u serious? u don't think the people voting for Bernie support local and state issues? what about the massive local state successes for gay marriage and medical marijuana?

Bernie supporters don't want to put in the work

You sure about this?

I don't see a lot of Bernie supporters rallying other people to vote in local and state elections. Just Bernie or bust.

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Wednesday, March 16, 2016 12:24 AM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this seems like more of a general problem about political apathy, which i think is tied to people's general estrangement from their local communities, than something to do specifically with bernie supporters

Actually, I've noted a lot of Bernie supporters doing some rallying, albeit independent of the Sanders campaign itself, which, like Clinton, and Trump, and every single one of these assholes, really hasn't even bothered mucking around at races outside their immediate bubble, as far as I can tell.

xpost Chicago's notorious state attorney losing her job in dramatic fashion was in essence one such down ticket race, not totally unrelated to a groundswell of progressive politics. Locally, I would not be shocked if Duckworth could later take out Kirk for similar reasons. The guys at the top - here, Rahm, or Rauner - may be firmly enmeshed, but the voters seem pretty inclined and mobilized to undermine them at the voting booth the best they can. Let's hope the momentum carries forward.

note that not every county in states had local/state issues to vote on in their Primary. my county didn't. the Dem nominee was the only thing on the ballot.

I don't see a lot of Bernie supporters rallying other people to vote in local and state elections. Just Bernie or bust.

maybe bc there's not enough progressive names to get excited over (god almighty we've had enough trouble itt coming up with less than half a dozen down ticket, Sanders-style candidates...)

FWIW, Chicago broke its past early voter turnout record, and I've seen the general primary voter turnout in Illinois described as "historic." Like, at least twice that of 2012, maybe more.

If you guys have seen that happening with Berners, then that's awesome. Most of the ones I know are of the bandwagon variety.

again, are we ignoring the massive recent state and local successes by the left in passing gay marriage and medical marijuana? those people are totally different from Bernie supporters? cos i don't see that.

all lazy bandwagoners too?

xp to Van Horn: "this vague elitism" is the massively well-documented and researched shift in Democratic party politics since the Reagan years, including a gradual turn away from the economic issues of the poor and working class and toward a milder version of conservative free market ideology coupled with liberalism on social issues. My post really has very little to do with whether Sanders is a "victim," but whether populist economic politics can actually get a fair hearing on the Democratic side of the aisle anymore.

Yeah I would love if Bernie's apparatus would keep rolling through fall supporting a bunch of GOTV and downticket support for progressive/socialist candidates.

Likewise.

How many Hillary supporters are actively involved in politics beyond supporting Hillary? It'd be nice if they'd channel some of that tepid enthusiasm into pushing people to settle downticket.