Il Douché and His Discontents: The 2016 Primary Voting Thread, Part 4

FWIW, Chicago broke its past early voter turnout record, and I've seen the general primary voter turnout in Illinois described as "historic." Like, at least twice that of 2012, maybe more.

If you guys have seen that happening with Berners, then that's awesome. Most of the ones I know are of the bandwagon variety.

again, are we ignoring the massive recent state and local successes by the left in passing gay marriage and medical marijuana? those people are totally different from Bernie supporters? cos i don't see that.

all lazy bandwagoners too?

xp to Van Horn: "this vague elitism" is the massively well-documented and researched shift in Democratic party politics since the Reagan years, including a gradual turn away from the economic issues of the poor and working class and toward a milder version of conservative free market ideology coupled with liberalism on social issues. My post really has very little to do with whether Sanders is a "victim," but whether populist economic politics can actually get a fair hearing on the Democratic side of the aisle anymore.

Yeah I would love if Bernie's apparatus would keep rolling through fall supporting a bunch of GOTV and downticket support for progressive/socialist candidates.

Likewise.

How many Hillary supporters are actively involved in politics beyond supporting Hillary? It'd be nice if they'd channel some of that tepid enthusiasm into pushing people to settle downticket.

adam, surely hillary voters also support both those issues? idk, maybe not weed

i do remain optimistic about four years of socialish organizing under a non-white-nationalist president

xpost I wonder if Sanders would be on board with that. It'd be pretty magnanimous to loose his people and funds in support of Clinton. I bet he could find a way to do it without necessarily supporter her, couching it simply as a GOTV campaign and not an extension of the Clinton campaign.

a candidate with the word "socialist" affixed to him always starts with a handicap, so the fact that he's as far as he is, is pretty impressive in itself.

this is where I end up, at the end of each of these Tuesdays. I've been living under a neoliberal regime pretty much my whole politically sentient life (except, notably, for three years under Allende). Just hearing the word "socialist" uttered unapologetically on the Great American Stage is mind-boggling enough. It's not that I'm singing hallelujah over it, but neither am I going to become disillusioned because a shaggy muppet from Burlington hasn't quite made the finish line in 2016.

all the republican hemming and hawing is meaningless until they say, tout court, that he is not qualified and they won't vote for him.

Too much of the Republican base these days is made up of Palinites and Trumpsters, so that strongly repudiating either of them spells electoral suicide for the party. The Republican establishment has painted itself into a corner and can't escape it without making a huge mess.

what ppl see in their facebook/twitter feeds isn't representative of anything but their own interests

xpost Seen a couple of think pieces posting that incessant anti-Obama hyperbole - he's socialist! he's a communist! - helped soften the blow a little bit and robbed the word of some of its menace.

I don't know who'll win the fight for the Republican party, but one faction will split off within the next 8-12 years and a third party will be born. How robust will it be? Who knows. But that's the point we've reached.

xp huh, interesting Josh. didn't know that

wow looks like hillary won missouri

yes by a few thousand votes

The Obama thing makes sense. "Oh, is this what socialism is? Seems to not be ruining my life on a personal level."*

(*Obama is by no means a socialist, but it's cool if a huge misconception really does soften the blow.)

pretty crazy how close mo ended up being

yes by a few thousand votes

― Mordy, Wednesday, March 16, 2016 12:42 AM (2 minutes ago

less than 1500 it looks like!

xp to Van Horn: "this vague elitism" is the massively well-documented and researched shift in Democratic party politics since the Reagan years, including a gradual turn away from the economic issues of the poor and working class and toward a milder version of conservative free market ideology coupled with liberalism on social issues. My post really has very little to do with whether Sanders is a "victim," but whether populist economic politics can actually get a fair hearing on the Democratic side of the aisle anymore.
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Wednesday, March 16, 2016 12:30 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sorry, i kinda took your post for a whole of shit I have been hearing about Sanders/Clinton tonight, which is super unfair on my part. I do think his rise is welcomed and everyone itt otm that the Sanders supporter type hopefully will continue the fight. To answer your post I think this vision of the left has long departed the US, even the New Deal could only be created in a time of crisis. I think the very incremental nature of US politics (presidency only 2x4 years is pretty short, compared to many countries) make those mass populist economic politics almost impossible to fight for, even more so in a climate of hatred for all things government.

even the New Deal could only be created in a time of crisis

the wars created european socialism

guys keep it down with the New Deal talk, you're gonna wake up Fred B.

i think a more robust liberal platform could become viable after this november if enough voters become disgusted with the republican party

agree obv that the imagined paradise of some aristocratic tax exiles has some pretty entrenched right-wing features but then so did the old monarchies, the left has had to fight everywhere is all. xps

the left is not dependent on Bernie, it was there before him, it will be there after him, it is part of him. he is setting an incredible precedent with this run, though, even if he fails spectacularly. i think he has definitely demonstrated some new possibilities and in the future we will have more left-leaning candidates and for that i am thankful. he doesn't even have to win the presidency, he's already done the nation a massive service.

the left gets called young, foolish, lazy, and unrealistic, just as they always have. the same things they said about Occupy Wall Street, they are saying about Sanders supporters now. same old establishment song and dance.

Paul BegalaVerified account
‏@PaulBegala
Looks like @HillaryClinton winning city of Chicago by 10%. Big mistake for @SenSanders to attack @RahmEmanuel.

ah, wonderful

interesting analysis paul begala

wonder what the next Patriot Act is going to look like

Begala is a toad.

Xp building on Adam's post:

One of the most remarkable thing to me about Sanders's run is he flat-out doesn't even bother to, or pretend to, triangulate.

We have become so resigned to that as the default mode of dem prez candidates that it had acquired the character of a natural law.

s

adam, surely hillary voters also support both those issues? idk, maybe not weed

fwiw Vermont was the first state to grant full marriage rights to same sex couples in 2000.

So just to clear things up, Kasich win in Ohio means Trump cannot get enough delegates to win the nomination?

Oh god no, he cleared up on the per-district delegates for Missouri and Illinois - I think he's further ahead of his projected path than before.

Also worth pointing out that Kasich staying in as the "Not Trump or Cruz" candidate means Trump's far more likely to clear up the winner-take-all states to come.

How many Hillary supporters are actively involved in politics beyond supporting Hillary? It'd be nice if they'd channel some of that tepid enthusiasm into pushing people to settle downticket.

unfair, sure, but, lol

lol so the Halperin crew thinks Paul Ryan will be the establishment's last choice should a convention need brokering

Van Horn Street pretty much otm imo, but who is surprised by that...

Also, the wars didn't create european socialism, stop talking about countries you know nothing about dlh, oh my god you're so arrogant, you're repellant, worse than hrc, etc, etc, etc. Denmark had it's first soc dem prime minister in 1924. And we weren't in ww1. Succesful labor union politics created danish socialism. And I don't think it's any fault of the american unions that the same didn't happen in the us, Danish right wing politicians didn't sic militias on strikers in dk.

xp Even my mom is talking about Paul Ryan coming in on some kind of parachute.

Apparently the thing that makes some people go for Trump is this idea that he 'can't be bought' but anyone with his money might be in the business of buying people up, right?

last i checked paul ryan was out-shermaning sherman and actually threatening to sue anybody who tried to get him to run for president.

in other news:

"FWIW, Chicago broke its past early voter turnout record, and I've seen the general primary voter turnout in Illinois described as "historic." Like, at least twice that of 2012, maybe more.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, March 16, 2016"

dead chicagoans turning out in droves for this one, eh?

Threadb fredb pls

Any truth to this Sanders-friendly forecasting?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-alan-grayson/democratic-presidential-primary-2_b_9459766.html

Hillary just won a ton of states outside the "Old South" last night

the race is over

love Grayson so much, he could potentially make for the kind of straight-talkin charismatic leftie that could win a general election, when the time is right

even if he fails spectacularly.

Isn't this already impossible? I mean, short of some sort of spectacular personal breakdown which is I suppose not impossible, he's fought a strong campaign, if that doesn't sound too patronizing, doing far better than would have been thought possible for an openly left-socialist candidate.

love Grayson so much, he could potentially make for the kind of straight-talkin charismatic leftie that could win a general election, when the time is right

― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, March 16, 2016

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/02/12/us/politics/alan-graysons-double-life-congressman-and-hedge-fund-manager.html?referer=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FjFp15qqKE6&_r=2

hmm

I liked him too.

he's a world class asshole