Il Douché and His Discontents: The 2016 Primary Voting Thread, Part 4

I'm not crazy about Clinton, but if she's the nominee, she's got my vote. It's like Dr Morbius always says: "I don't care whom I have to vote for, as long as we get a Democrat in the White House."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxSfQeCoFUM

can imagine Morbs in these clothes

Oh, i won't have much to say after April 19

lololol plz no teasing

Cash is what votes first.

"I don't care whom I have to vote for, as long as we get a Democrat in the White House."

I generally give Southerners a pass on this.

No, once Bern is off the scene, vote for the monster you like best.

One interesting thing about that Fields/Lewandowski video is that it's apparently from a security camera at Trump's own club. A more practiced movie villain would have directed his staff to "accidentally" delete that footage.

Not that it will change the way anybody votes, but Camp Trump would have done better to say something along the lines of "whoops, it was a few chaotic seconds, sorry IF you got jostled in the scrum." But they went straight to "she's lying and she's a hysterical nut and fame-seeker and oh by the way probably a whore as well." It could have been a bruise sustained in a confused moment; it's been allowed to become a story that conveniently fits larger narratives of misogyny and violence.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ceuo6ZaWIAArr2G.jpg

sorry

Sarandon is kind of a phony, no kiddin'

Yeah can we stop attributing this perspective to youth or immaturity? There's an intelligent argument to be made against zero-sum politics but the constant "oh you don't yet understand what it's like in the real world" is a fucking copout.

Like is there ANY set of circumstances in which the notion that the status quo is no longer tenable, full stop, would be legitimate to you guys?

Yes, but we are nowhere near that point.

At the moment the dangers of instability in our country and throughout the world are much greater than the dangers of the status quo - this is even if we didn't have a reasonable expectation of reforms being put into place to make the status quo better.

any dramatic/violent end to the political & economic status quo would rapidly degrade the material circumstances of millions of already-vulnerable Americans, likely for the rest of their lives.

I watched Sarandon on Hayes' show last night; she's smarter than the average actor until she says dumb shit

Also not sure that Hollywood actors are the best ppl to tell us "what it's like in the real world."

any dramatic/violent end to the political & economic status quo would rapidly degrade the material circumstances of millions of already-vulnerable Americans, likely for the rest of their lives.

― petulant dick master (silby), Tuesday, March 29, 2016 12:51 PM (3 minutes ago)

this is just vague enough to be not even wrong

I mean I'm no economist but I figure if the US gov't under the constitution were to violently cease operations, the repudiation of USD-denominated national debt would cause widespread misery

I will apologize in advance if I am wrong that neither of you are seeking treatment for PTSD or phantom limb, have lost your pensions, have had your homes taken by eminent domain to Big Frack. I guess it all depends where you're sitting.

Does anyone think that the US has gone in a better direction because GWB beat Gore in 2000? Why would anyone believe that electing the worse choice would lead to better results down the road? It's just magical thinking + fantasizing.

who the hell are you even responding to now

Where I'm sitting President Donald Trump is not going to make life better for people seeking treatment for PTSD, who have lost their pension, or lost their home to eminent domain. Where you're sitting does it look differently?

how do you guys do this every day

I thought we're talking about Sarandon's comments? Am I wrong?

I'll be honest I'm not sure what I'm responding to.

can we talk about how her acting has sucked since 1995

i assume 'let's stick with the status quo' ilxors don't click on the climate change thread too often

Donald Trump denies human caused global warming so wtf are you talking about.

I avoid learning about climate change because I have an extreme need to maintain affective homeostasis

Trump & Hil will do zip to stop climate change

also Trump will not be president

Clinton will do nothing to stop climate change or the things Clinton is proposing to do will not stop climate change? The former implies that she does not care and is not including it in her platform; the latter implies that she's focusing on the wrong things in her platform. Which is the problem you're identifying here?

Where I'm sitting President Donald Trump is not going to make life better for people seeking treatment for PTSD, who have lost their pension, or lost their home to eminent domain. Where you're sitting does it look differently?

The question for me is not will Donald Trump make those things better. In the short term your point is well taken. In the meantime the private interests benefiting from endless war and usury are increasingly entrenched and our institutions are calcifying to the extent that one day they will beyond rehabilitation.

I guess we differ as to how long from now that is, and what the signs are.

Clinton, iirc xp

She does not care enough to piss off her funders in the "energy" fields, and i see her keeping the Arctic open for drilling a la the Obama-Trudeau agreement.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/10/hillary-clinton-climate-change-debate-copenhagen

In the meantime the private interests benefiting from endless war and usury are increasingly entrenched...

Waaaaaait for itttttt

Wwwwwwwwaaaaaaiiiitttttt fffffooorrrrrr iiiiiittttttttt

(that last post was to DJP)

She does not care enough to piss off her funders in the "energy" fields, and i see her keeping the Arctic open for drilling a la the Obama-Trudeau agreement.

From her platform:

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/climate/

Ensure safe and responsible energy production. As we transition to a clean energy economy, we must ensure that the fossil fuel production taking place today is safe and responsible and that areas too sensitive for energy production are taken off the table. Hillary knows there are some places where we should keep fossil fuels in the ground or under the ocean.

https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/633629814713397249?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

So again, are you basing this on research that shows her campaign goals will not go far enough to make a difference or are you making up shit because you don't like her?

The former implies that she does not care and is not including it in her platform

I think this really hits on something. IMO she doesn't have to "not care" about global warming to do nothing about it. I will never in a zillion years vote for HRC (I'm in MA) but not because I don't think she doesn't care or that her heart is in the wrong place. I think she is generally sincere, well-intentioned, and on some issues even righteous. But as someone who has been reared in and profited by a system of legislation-for-profit, I think she is fundamentally incapable of identifying the actual underlying problem. Name your issue: guns? bridges? health care? prison reform? The ob$tacle is the same.

So, the people I had Easter dinner with vote Republican because of abortion. My brother married the daughter of a Marine and her family are really conservative. Talking about the "unborn" while passing plates of slaughtered pig = fuck these people. How could they not see how their racist party is responsible for Trump?

Electing Trump this year is not going to give the WH to the far left four years from now. If you believe it might - like you're thinking Trump might be good from a strategic perspective because maybe it'll help the left succeed more later down the line, I think you need to strongly interrogate whether that's a reasonable assumption.

Fetuses, the other white meat

xpost yeah I'm not voting for Trump so

or maybe you are asking Susan Sarandon that

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/03/29/susan_sarandon_is_perfect_spokeswoman_for_neverhillary.html

What Sarandon is voicing is the old Leninist idea of “heightening the contradictions,” which holds that social conditions need to get worse in order to inspire the revolution that will make them better. In this way of thinking, the real enemy of progress is incremental reform that would render the status quo tolerable. That was the position of the German Communists in the early 1930s, who refused to ally with the Social Democrats, proclaiming: “After Hitler, our turn!” A similar—if less deadly—assumption underlay Ralph Nader’s 2000 presidential campaign, for which Sarandon served as co-chair of the national steering committee. George W. Bush, Nader argued then, could serve as a “provocateur,” awakening the power of the left. “If it were a choice between a provocateur and an 'anesthetizer,' I'd rather have a provocateur,” said Nader. “It would mobilize us.”

Electing Trump this year is not going to give the WH to the far left four years from now. If you believe it might - like you're thinking Trump might be good from a strategic perspective because maybe it'll help the left succeed more later down the line, I think you need to strongly interrogate whether that's a reasonable assumption.

― Mordy, Tuesday, March 29, 2016 1:29 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea the "things need to get really bad before they get better" fantasy has been around for a long time

But as someone who has been reared in and profited by a system of legislation-for-profit, I think she is fundamentally incapable of identifying the actual underlying problem. Name your issue: guns? bridges? health care? prison reform? The ob$tacle is the same.

Do you believe this is reflected in the platform she has put forward? The link to her take on climate change is upthread.

i love susan sarandon but she is wrong here

xpost But that's the thing—I don't believe her professed positions have any real value. This isn't cynicism on my part. The post-election prioritization of corporate interest above principles-on-record basically IS neoliberalism.

HVIII you are in a room full of people that think the bailout was a good idea

worst case scenario for her is a big fat tax cut so she's cool with trump