Il Douché and His Discontents: The 2016 Primary Voting Thread, Part 4

xpost he wasn't

KM otm

re trouncing (explain it's all a mirage, we've heard that-- the OPTICS are good)

‏@ggreenwald
Last 7 states:

ID- Sanders 78%
UT- Sanders 79.3%
AZ- HRC 56.5%
AK- Sanders 81.6%
HI- Sanders 68.8%
WA- Sanders 72.7%
WI- Sanders 56.5%

if I'm Bernie I see those numbers and know it's time to fold up shop, draft concession speech etc. because REALISTICALLY etc.

the difference between options a) and b) is two months

in order to support him dropping him out right now, you have to believe that he is single-handedly capable (and responsible) of doing all the gruntwork (like the filing deadlines, fundraising you mentioned), and that the reason down-ticket races aren't looking good for progressives is due to his lack of time and attention. given the kind of person he is - as discussed upthread it seems like he's more of a big picture guy than detail-oriented, which i think is totally fine - he seems like a more galvanizing force as a figurehead of the movement.

also it's kind of cheesy, but there's a rally in brooklyn in a couple weeks, and there are going to be a bunch of families and young people and children and formerly disengaged people who hate all the typical establishment candidates, standing together and cheering for sanders and listening to his ideas. that means something, and it's going to inspire a bunch of people. i don't see how abruptly quitting and canceling those kind of rallies is a good move for progressives.

i'm sorry everyone, go home! bernie has a conference call about filing deadlines in rural indiana for a key state representative battle that he needs to attend.

he's more of a big picture guy than detail-oriented ... a more galvanizing force as a figurehead of the movement.

see, Shakey? Reagan.

as you've already elected Clinton, howzbout she fires Wasserman-Stain? does that get your concern as much as Sanders financing a generation of lefty Dem congressppl this year?

where is this Brooklyn rally, km?

er, not in BK - in washington square. but hey, maybe he'll walk over here and say hello!

let's say theoretically bernie loses in NY and he's looking ahead to PA, NJ, MD and the numbers are you know, he's making progress but it seems like he's probably not going to turn it around sufficiently. does it make more sense for him to keep going to the convention knowing that his narrow path to victory has essentially vanished - basically lying to supporters that there's still a chance (at the moment there is enough of a chance that i think his call for support is genuine) - or does it make more sense to tell supporters: "the math doesn't make sense but that does not mean the revolution is over. now announcing: Bernie candidates! we still need to put ppl who agree w/ us in office to change this country and now that will be the focus of this campaign." i mean i think the latter - i don't see virtue in dragging supporters to a convention IF the math really does become impossible. i think it's not so at the moment - i mean he could win in NY, close the gap and win in PA, NJ, not lose too badly in MD, and then get a huge blowout in CA and have a spectacular come from behind victory. but if the numbers actually become impossible does it make sense to keep going just to keep the kids involved? or does it make sense to transition the kids to something new?

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/bernie-sanders-interviewed-by-spike-880788

the debate (4/14) is at the Navy Yard xxp

or does it make more sense to tell supporters: "the math doesn't make sense but that does not mean the revolution is over. now announcing: Bernie candidates! we still need to put ppl who agree w/ us in office to change this country and now that will be the focus of this campaign."

in the event of a NY loss, that would be sweet, although i don't think he'd do it. i mean, i take issue with his lack of support for down-ticket races, as i mentioned above. i don't think he has a plan for how to actually build a progressive revolution. i don't see a plan for maintaining the energy and support from his campaign and using using it as a base to build upon. not that it's easy - obama's Organizing for Action seems to have been a total failure - but it would be cool if he would even give it a shot.

so given my lack of confidence in his ability to deliver on the grassroots nuts and bolts movement kind of stuff, i think he's most valuable doing what he's doing - running a very prominent campaign for president and getting his ideas out there.

and that he should keep doing it as long as he has a viable chance, which he certainly does right now, even if it's small. sorry, i'll stop now.

same. ive linked to my local race a couple of times here, but i dont think that guy runs or wins as a democrat without bernie. and i sure as fuck dont volunteer if that guy doesnt win either. i cant be the only one.

@HillaryClinton
We need a president who doesn’t just rail against trade. We need a president who knows how to compete against the rest of the world and win.

Trumpishhhhh....

Where are the specifics?

Hey hey! Ho ho! Uncompetitive marginal tax rates have got to go!

if it were the case that people from all over the country were interested enough in the kind of local races necessary to effect a "political revolution", there would be a PAC for this and it would be hugely successful. but there's not. people care about the presidency

yes this is a real problem. voting for a president is "sexy" and "exciting", rallies w 1000s of people etc. but it is not really the most effective political activity. the right has figured this out. the left has not.

many many xps

speaking of trade, does Hillary support TTIP?

howzbout she fires Wasserman-Stain? does that get your concern as much as Sanders financing a generation of lefty Dem congressppl this year?

my hatred of Wasserman-Schulz is well-established on these threads.

has Sanders called for her firing? that would be cool.

have we mentioned today's daily news cover? (admitted bernie-fan bait)

http://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Bernie-New-York-Daily-News-.jpg

guess the daily news really does not like him

to the claims that Bernie's firing up and engaging progressives and how that (hopefully) will have a lasting impact - isn't it just as likely that people will disengage/become cynical when he inevitably loses? "I was so excited and donated money and went to rallies and voted in the primary and it STILL wasn't enough! Fuck this shit!" seems like just as likely a reaction.

xp

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/04/06/clinton-attacks-sanders-on-guns-but-the-truth-is-complicated/

not a great couple of days for the NYDN in terms of journalistic integrity/honesty, though it seems to be working

true, but that depends on how bernie (and hillary) manage and communicate his loss

xp

ok answered my own question - she finally came out AGAINST ttip after weeks of hemming and hawing. but notably she raised no objections against ISDS (as far as i can tell) which is by far the most objectionably anti-democratic provision in it (which is saying something)

why did he even talk to the daily news? that newspaper is like one step above the post which is one step below the gutter.

isn't it just as likely that people will disengage/become cynical when he inevitably loses?

some people definitely will, just like almost everyone disengages when it's time for midterms. but, again, how would those same people react if he quit right now, at the end of a series of strong primary victories, when he still had a legitimate chance to win?

The Daily News slammed Clinton a couple days ago for the perceived min wage opportunism, and I think also hit her on caginess around a debate, but I do get the sense that they're ultimately more anti-Sanders than anti-Clinton. And I'd be surprised if they weren't.

what is the trick to getting the left to vote during midterms? they claim to be angry + that things are dire + that radical change is needed. how does that become "oops was yesterday election day?"

The Daily News is an institution in NYC whether good or not, and at least it's Dem-leaning, unlike the Post. Although such things are increasingly becoming dinosaurs, it's one of the two papers that "ordinary New Yorkers" have read for years.

xpost because the candidates on offer are basically moderate republicans?

also, let's dispel with this fiction that his loss is inevitable. in terms of delegates, it's unlikely, but not impossible, and he certainly has the momentum. putting all that aside, it seems foolish to categorize anything as "inevitable" this year. remember a few months ago when anyone that talked about the possibility of a contested convention was tossed aside like a fool because it was impossible that GOP would let things reach that point?

what is the trick to getting the left to vote during midterms? they claim to be angry + that things are dire + that radical change is needed. how does that become "oops was yesterday election day?"

― Mordy, Wednesday, April 6, 2016 1:03 PM (43 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is the $10k question. How did the tea party do it? I remember reading that, contrary to popular stereotype, its supporters tend to be affluent and educated. That's probably the base for people who are most likely to be politically active. I guess you need a way to make involvement engaging, social, exciting, etc., like dressing up in revolutionary era garb and yelling is for right-wing dorks. Do that and channel it into midterm voting somehow (???).

You don't actually need a huge number of people to get involved, relatively speaking, because turnout is so low.

treesh the daily news is a staple of new york life, like the post. yes it's a tabloid but it's fairly high qual as tabs go (and it's not owned by rupert murdoch)

i know no one likes to talk about hillary's email thing, but if the FBI has 147 a few dozen people working on it and they intend to do whatever they do before the convention, there's at least a chance that she has to deal with a ton of bad publicity in the final weeks of the primary season. i don't know how much something like that would affect the race, but it definitely doesn't help her

let's dispel with this fiction

let's dispel this malapropism shall we

let's dispel with dis dick

what is the trick to getting the left to vote during midterms?

As I always ask, what left?

dude everything you post is dumb

this revved up left that's voting for Bernie, obviously

xp

i know no one likes to talk about hillary's email thing, but if the FBI has 147 a few dozen people working on it and they intend to do whatever they do before the convention, there's at least a chance that she has to deal with a ton of bad publicity in the final weeks of the primary season. i don't know how much something like that would affect the race, but it definitely doesn't help her

― Karl Malone, Wednesday, April 6, 2016 2:07 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idk i haven't been keeping up w/ it a ton but the email thing seems like such a non-scandal, nobody really gives a shit except for right-wingers and some really hardcore bernie fans, though i guess the reaction would change a little if clinton is actually indicted, which seems like a longshot though

M, i think you're stupid too. let's move on.

please just think 10 seconds before you post something and ask yourself "is this a really dumb comment that adds nothing to the conversation"?

like we're in the midst of a bernie campaign where you apparently believe he has a more than non-zero chance of winning and you even cited a greenwald post to demonstrate all his momentum and how the narrative that he can't win is bogus -- and then you ask "what left." like what the fuck are you even talking about?

don't bother Mordy

er don't bother, Mordy

Say, now, wasn't there talk of starting a Part 5 thread, now that this one is well past 7500 posts? With Wisconsin results the season is entering a new phase of Trump slippage and Sanders fighting for leverage in NY, PENN and NJ. Seems like a good moment to start anew.