Cast the POLLs Aside: the definitive SMASHING PUMPKINS albums poll

I loved the shit out of maxi singles and so did my deeper music head friends, but it definitely wasn't what most people went for. But then neither were box sets.

were CD singles more widely available in '96 though?

Not really. Many maxi-singles - especially from Gish and SD era - were difficult to find outside of imports. Import singles were always kinda risky - spending $9.99 or $10.99 just to hear 1 or 2 b-sides that could potentially suck. At least in the case of the Mellon Collie singles, they were EP length and "Zero" specifically probably contained about 50 minutes of music.

iirc NIN's "Further Down The Spiral" was a pretty hot deal at $5.99.

NIN also cannily branded every release as a numbered "Halo," pumping them up as essential pieces of the canon rather than just product shoved out by the label.

Now I'm thinking Corgan should have followed this model - Gish as "Pumpkin #1" etc.

CD singles sold very well in the UK throughout the '90s, hitting a peak from 1994 2 1998 or thereabouts. Bands would often release 2 different versions 'o' the same single, with different B-sides on each. At one point, CD singles were almost like EP's... u got the "main" track and then three additional tracks. If they went down the 2xCD route, then u'd end up with six new songs, or remixes or whatever. Of course, the quality 'o' the B-sides varied depending on the artist, others opted 2 put out live tracks or remixes etc.

Of course, digital files ended up killing the CD single, but the rot started 2 set in when the "rules" 2woards CD singles changed. Eye think u stopped being allowed 2 have more than three tracks on a CD single and it had 2 clock in under a certain amount 'o' time. Bands got exhausted with multi-4matting because it meant that they were having 2 write the equivalent of 2 or 3 albums worth 'o' stuff during an album cycle. Think about it, it wasn't uncommon 4 bands to release 3 or 4 singles from an LP at that time. If they released 2xCD singles 4 every single, that would have meant releasing 24 extra tracks, on top of the LP.

*2wards

Anyway, eye happen 2 be one 'o' those people that thinks that MACHINA could have been one of the Pumpkins' best ever albums if it had been done properly, as it was supposed 2 be. Eye think Corgan was writing a lot of great material at that time, and a lot 'o' the songs from then are big favourites 'o' mine.

*r

OK I actually just attempted the Pisces Iscariot of the MCIS era

Medellia of the Grey Skies
God
Ugly
Cherry
Transformer
Rotten Apples
The Boy
Mouths of Babes
Marquis In Spades
Set the Ray to Jerry
Said Sadly
Pennies
The Aeroplane Flies High (Turns Left, Looks Right)
The Last Song

I wanted to be clever and open with "The Last Song" instead but it was just stupid

I need to go back and listen to all of those TFAH tracks. I sold my box set during an era of extreme poverty about fifteen years ago, and now the only tune I can remember clearly (apart from, like, "My Blue Heaven") is "Set The Ray To Jerry" (which is amazing of course).

TAFH, even.

The acoustic demo of Ugly is so much better than the one on the EP. apparently that song went through half a dozen versions only to be rendered in this off-putting minimal palm muted thing and cast off as a b side. the tune is strong enough to have been a single. lyrics would've resonated back then, too

Billy's Home Demos/the Mellon Collie Demos are absolutely gorgeous, i listen to this more than MCIS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urrSfBXa--c

Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
Lily (My One and Only)
To Forgive For Nothing Less Than Forgetfulness
Bullet With Butterfly Wings
Here Is No Why
Galapogos
Frantic Ab Groove
Autumn Nocturne
Ugly
Wishing You Were Real
Thirty-three
Beautiful

i'm still not convinced billy isn't singing 'panties for sale' on pennies

beliebe, belieber meat

if there is a god
i know he likes to rock
he likes his loud guitars
and his spiders from mars

if there is a god
i know she's watching me
she's a spy with bedroom eyes
that cowers in our skies

http://pitchfork.com/news/65103-darcy-wretzky-says-shed-consider-reuniting-with-the-smashing-pumpkins/

Machina 2 is maybe my fifth-favorite album of theirs, but looking back I don't know if they had a better four-song run than "Go," "Let Me Give the World to You," "Innosense," and "Home" (god "Home" is a gorgeous song).

^^^^ otm

"Go" is probably the best Iha-sung tune they ever did

I prefer Blew Away and The Boy, but Go is great. Certainly better than Take Me Down.

Eye must be one 'o' the few people that likes 'Take Me Down', eye've never really understood what was supposed 2 be bad about it. The guitar sounds on it r beautiful.

it works well as a denouement to disc 1, but on its own the song is really uninteresting. like it functions well as a 3 minute intermission between Porcelina and Where Boys Fear to Tread, but I'm never paying attention to it.

There's plenty 'o' nice melodic ideas in it, eye think. Eye'd take it over 'To Forgive' or 'We Only Come Out At Night' or 'Lily' any day.

it does have some nice sounds and tones, but it's so weightless compared to Corgan's material. really shows how undeveloped Iha was as a songwriter and singer. To Forgive, We Only Come Out at Night, and Lily have so much more going on melodically and lyrically.

'To Forgive' doesn't have much 'o' a tune 2 speak of, really. It's a mere scrap over-inflated 2 4 minutes, whereas 'Take Me Down' cycles thru a whole number of vocal melodies in 2 and a half minutes... none of which really repeat, if eye remember correctly.

"take me down" is good but as "the iha tune we allowed on the album" it's like... way less good than "believe" or "the boy"

*'o'

i agree, but there isn't a place for Believe, The Boy, or any of the other MCIS-era Iha songs on the album. This leaked demo of Billy singing "One and Two" (which ended up on Iha's 1998 solo album) is pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGXwp7sv3IY

Eye think Iha was a more than capable songwriter, 2 be honest with U. Granted, he was far from a great singer, but then Corgan wasn't either. Eye think he could have blossomed as a songwriter if it wasn't for baldy's dominance in the band. Corgan is quick 2 blame people 4 their lack 'o' enthusiasm, but let's be honest, he did his very best to quash people's enthusiasm 2.

I think you're giving Iha too much credit. He complained to everyone that he was a "repressed talent" a la George Harrison - no one agreed, not producers, record label execs, or other members of the band. Iha wrote more songs in the late 80s period of the band, and they're all awful. I mean, listen to his solo albums. They're garbage. To blame Iha's mediocrity on Corgan is unfair. John and Paul were just as discouraging to George but he blossomed and showed them. Iha has yet to prove he has anything better than "The Boy" or "Go" in him.

He's a fantastic guitar stylist. He came up with a lot of really cool atmospheric parts for live shows. He was generally lazy in the studio, and not as productive as Corgan.

Maybe spending 12 years with baldy sucked the enthusiasm out 'o' him. In fact, I'll bet it did.

Not really, he just divested his energy out of the band. His solo albums from 1998 and 2013 show that he has nothing going for him.

i like let it come down ok

he plays some nice geetar on that one Fountains of Wayne song

he's great with an ebow

"Everyone has a misguided perception of...my brain."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRlJlJBAQQs

All started with Gish for me, and SD was the soundtrack to pretty much all of puberty. I dont think I played any other CD more in my life than SD. Hanging out with them and drinking Jack Daniels in their tour bus after a Rotterdam concert was the high point of my teenage years.

I unashamedly love all their albums up to Machina, which disappointed, and after that I gave up. Which felt odd to do, breaking up in a way. Age-wise it was perfect timing: when Machina came out Billy just wanted to "rawk" (after the Jimmy debacle, the death of a fan in Ireland, Jonathan Melvoin od'ing) and I saw why. I at that moment tried to squirm away from my teenage years, and develop my musical taste further by taking an interest in Alvin Lucier, Can, Throbbing Gristle and the likes.

But my love for all albums up to TAFH (their swan song for me, to my ears) is undying. And looking back and being asked this question now, this can only be between Mellon Collie and Adore. And it's a nigh on impossible choice to make, as they are complete opposites.

Great story, thanks for sharing. Can only imagine what the vibe on that bus must've been.

Billy played "This Time" for the first time since 2000 recently. I always loved this overlooked song, it's really sweet and very sad- all about the impending collapse of the band...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vto9efbruA0

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Results are about right.

Yep, could've easily predicted the outcome of this one.

no votes for Machina II though? sorta shocked. who tf voted for monuments to an elegy

I never understood the sd love. After the amazing gish which was new, fresh and psychedelic as hell to me sd was where they became mainstream. Boring almost classic rock. Mellon collie was a return to form after that as it had great tunes sd didn't have. I guess it was also the production on sd which did not work for me. Too slick.

I agree, I almost never listen to the album proper because the production is so homogenous. But my favorite live era of the band is 1994 - they were like a paramilitary unit, and the SD and Gish songs sound great played really fast and with a lot of venom.

bombs away!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLHEitwq20w

man, that really brings out the song's kinship with "ace of spades." not in a bad way.