HBO's adaptation of Game of Thrones - Thread 2. There are a lot of nerds.

You are all insane for not understanding this

Yeah, but but the losses were much smaller in real medieval battles, weren't they? Yeah, watching the army surround them was annoying, especially hen you have a giant. But that's okay.

X-posts

there were some p huge battles in medieval times what w all yr various empires and so forth

if only the Holy Roman Empire had dragons

I just finished a history of the thirty years war and was helplessly making game of thrones analogies the entire time I was reading it.

Yeah, I just thought the deathrate for medieval battle was relatively small - like, 5-10%. I'm to sure I can justify this idea, though - may be a misunderstood or misremembered thing.

if only the Holy Roman Empire had dragons

― ryan, Monday, June 20, 2016 12:34 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wonder what charlemagne wldve called his

that cld be generally true while still allowing for some utter massacres xp

You are all insane for not understanding this

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, June 20, 2016 12:30 PM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I understand why it would be a secret initially, everyone does, yes. Though the night before the battle, when they're desperate and the request for help was long since sent, there's nothing to lose by telling Jon to consider the possibility of Vale intervention in the short term. At that point he is mad at her but he's got bigger things to worry about and possible-Vale is a pretty significant detail to account for when strategizing.

I didn't mean this to turn into a big discussion.

civilian populations were often slaughtered post-battle by marauding soldiers. it's pretty grim. there doesn't seem to be any civilians at winterfell tho.

pretty dismayed by the existence of littlefinger. my brother and I had for so long planned to start a nu metal band called nannyfinger, and that name isn't cool and/or original sounding now.

Also, all of the Sansa justifications seem to involve her considering her own shame etc more important than her life, jon's,
Her house, her people etc. She seems to have told Jon what happened when she was married, and Jon seems fairly realpolitik about th batte. It's just that my prior idea of her character would have told Jon, and I'm not sure what motivations I'm missing.

she just wanted to prove that she could make crucial moves during wartime on her own!! what is wrong w/ you ppl

lol this basic argument comprises 100% of the thread

somehow josh in chicago isnt involved today tho

I understand why it would be a secret initially, everyone does, yes. Though the night before the battle, when they're desperate and the request for help was long since sent, there's nothing to lose by telling Jon to consider the possibility of Vale intervention in the short term. At that point he is mad at her but he's got bigger things to worry about and possible-Vale is a pretty significant detail to account for when strategizing.

I didn't mean this to turn into a big discussion.

― Evan, Monday, June 20, 2016 11:36 AM (3 minutes a

But if she doesn't know if he's coming or not what purpose does this serve? To get jon's hopes up?

How about how long it took for those dragons to start torching people, eh? Drove me nuts.

Also, all of the Sansa justifications seem to involve her considering her own shame etc more important than her life, jon's,
Her house, her people etc. She seems to have told Jon what happened when she was married, and Jon seems fairly realpolitik about th batte. It's just that my prior idea of her character would have told Jon, and I'm not sure what motivations I'm missing.

― inside, skeletons are always inside, that's obvious. (dowd), Monday, June 20, 2016 11:38 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This entire post is batshit

:D Really?

sansa must have known that pete and the vale had responded to her message. she didn't just happen to bump into them on a jaunt in the woods. imo the only explanation for not saying anything at all that doesn't rely on her being stupid as a corollary is that politically she wanted to make sure she came out of things ahead of jon

She's clearly meant to have developed a sense of self preservation/political canniness it's not about her "sense of shame" where tf do you even get that Bon mot

I think Sansa knew that letting someone as stone dumb as Jon in on a crafty plan would guarantee its failure

my Sansa models are not agreeing with the trajectory of this episode

Jon legit sucked as a general

I don't think she has a 'sense of shame' but people keep saying that she doesn't want to talk to Jon about how littlefinger 'sold her' to Ramsay.

sansa must have known that pete and the vale had responded to her message. she didn't just happen to bump into them on a jaunt in the woods. imo the only explanation for not saying anything at all that doesn't rely on her being stupid as a corollary is that politically she wanted to make sure she came out of things ahead of jon

― Roberto Spiralli, Monday, June 20, 2016 11:46 AM (17 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Or an army showed up when it showed up? What are they keeping in touch by iPhone?

And again it makes lots of sense why she wouldn't tell Jon without needing to assume she's trying to usurp him

or this shit is just badly written

Could you explicitly state it? Why wouldn't she tl Jon?

two things i can't take seriously in this show:

1. dany riding the dragons. makes me feel like i'm 10 years old watching a show for 10-year-olds. maybe this is a good thing.
2. the lesbian angle for theon's sister - another terribly shoe-horned line this ep

battle was good tho. rip mag the mighty perhaps you should have jumped over those shield guys.

whoa many xposts

The old her might have told him even though it would have long term negative consequences; he might have rejected littlefinger's help for reasons irrational and legit (cf what jho is talking about w/r/t them being in hock to LF now.) or maybe Lf's forces don't even show

I'm guessing the little girl ruler who sent her knights to help Sansa is going to have some questions...

Could you explicitly state it? Why wouldn't she tl Jon?

― inside, skeletons are always inside, that's obvious. (dowd), Monday, June 20, 2016 11:50 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Do you have Joe killfiled or something?

theons sisters not a lesbian she doesnt really like labels like that shes just attracted to people you know

badly written

― goole, Monday, June 20, 2016 11:50 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Lots of parts are but sometimes ppl are just dumb

Jon cares about this army, and Sansa knows this. Sansa knows Jon won't betray her (again, I'll stress that this is t a big deal to me, it was just written to get the deus ex finger at the end, which was great)

theons sisters not a lesbian she doesnt really like labels like that shes just attracted to people you know

she is a bit like thormund except i think his sexuality is supposed to be linked with a low iq

Jon cares about this army, and Sansa knows this. Sansa knows Jon won't betray her (again, I'll stress that this is t a big deal to me, it was just written to get the deus ex finger at the end, which was great)

― inside, skeletons are always inside, that's obvious. (dowd), Monday, June 20, 2016 11:54 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"It was written so the plot would happen" is the story of everything ever. I'm just saying that it doesn't require much suspension of disbelief bc their motivations were clearly spelled out in a way that isn't contradictory

I think it was contradictory - Sansa was willing to risk the life or her and her brothers, and the north, for something. That strikes me as contradictory to her character. As would jon refusing littlefinger's help, when he was willing to make lots of concessions to build his army. I don't know what motivation people refer to that supercedes everything.

seems like littlefingers/starks best move is for the starks to bend the knee to the lanisters and bide their time

we're definitely supposed to leave that episode thinking that sansa is more wise than jon. i.e. with the whole rickon thing, she tells jon that ramsay just wants to make him do something stupid, and lo and behold by shooting rickon with an arrow he goads jon into storming his entire army alone, a suicide mission that would have resulted in the ultimate and permanent end of the stark name.

further the scene where she warns him against being provoked by ramsay tells us that she distrusts him, and further trusts her own judgement more than she trusts his, so the idea that she wouldn't inform him of a maneuver such as calling on littlefinger for help is completely in line w/ what happens previously in the episode.............

except it is a giant fucking gamble that could get everyone killed, and does in fact get thousands of ppl killed unnecessarily?

I understand why it would be a secret initially, everyone does, yes. Though the night before the battle, when they're desperate and the request for help was long since sent, there's nothing to lose by telling Jon to consider the possibility of Vale intervention in the short term. At that point he is mad at her but he's got bigger things to worry about and possible-Vale is a pretty significant detail to account for when strategizing.

I didn't mean this to turn into a big discussion.

― Evan, Monday, June 20, 2016 11:36 AM (3 minutes a

But if she doesn't know if he's coming or not what purpose does this serve? To get jon's hopes up?

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, June 20, 2016 12:42 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Jon could try to buy some time to see if they arrive. Instead he though he was totally out of options.

something about the weird little leaps of logic (maybe that's too strong a term, really) or just the way that characters routinely act in service to the plot rather than any sense of their own motivations or intelligence, really drives me batty with this show (as much as i enjoy it.

case in point: ramsay having a totally clean shot at jon (after having proven he can take down a running man at 100 yds!) but deciding to take down the already dying giant because...well i guess just to remind us he's evil. and sure you can justify this any number of ways (ramsay being somewhat a showman, for instance) but in that moment it's just....stupid.

except it is a giant fucking gamble that could get everyone killed, and does in fact get thousands of ppl killed unnecessarily?

― Roberto Spiralli, Monday, June 20, 2016 12:09 PM (21 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This entire situation is a gamble that could get everyone killed no matter the decision she makes...

this show make a lot more sense once you realize its... stupid

something about the weird little leaps of logic (maybe that's too strong a term, really) or just the way that characters routinely act in service to the plot rather than any sense of their own motivations or intelligence, really drives me batty with this show (as much as i enjoy it.

case in point: ramsay having a totally clean shot at jon (after having proven he can take down a running man at 100 yds!) but deciding to take down the already dying giant because...well i guess just to remind us he's evil. and sure you can justify this any number of ways (ramsay being somewhat a showman, for instance) but in that moment it's just....stupid.

― ryan, Monday, June 20, 2016 1:12 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

i mean.... please remember this is a television show and not something that actually happened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you can't remember that you're watching a television show

http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.158316898.2338/flat,800x800,070,f.jpg

but it's so easy to make that scene SO MUCH BETTER why not do it!?

something about the weird little leaps of logic (maybe that's too strong a term, really) or just the way that characters routinely act in service to the plot rather than any sense of their own motivations or intelligence, really drives me batty with this show (as much as i enjoy it.

case in point: ramsay having a totally clean shot at jon (after having proven he can take down a running man at 100 yds!) but deciding to take down the already dying giant because...well i guess just to remind us he's evil. and sure you can justify this any number of ways (ramsay being somewhat a showman, for instance) but in that moment it's just....stupid.

― ryan, Monday, June 20, 2016 12:12 PM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is a good example of the kind of nitpicking I can't stand where you're like, give the show some credit. There are about a million reasons why shooting a giant in the eye to take him down could be the smarter choice. I don't need them to telegraph rationalizations of literally every decision made in the show or make sure that we can see his shot of Jon is obstructed or have someone laboriously explain that he was just going off instinct or whatever other completely reasonable explanation would make it ok that a character did one thing instead of another