Weird, we watched WAOVW the other night. It was great. Can't imagine how Boom lives up to it
― imago, Sunday, 14 August 2016 20:58 (seven years ago) link
Woolf is the true classic here, but every time I see Boom! I'm impressed by how entertaining it is. The clothes and sets are certainly more interesting in the latter, and the cinematography in general is amazing - done by the same guy who shot Raiders of the Lost Ark among many other films of note. Of course Woolf had Haskell Wexler, so…
― Josefa, Sunday, 14 August 2016 22:48 (seven years ago) link
Another way to look at this is, I think Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf is actually the best English-language film of 1966 (Oscar fucked that one up) whereas I wouldn't rate Boom! even in the top ten best of 1968
― Josefa, Sunday, 14 August 2016 23:19 (seven years ago) link
I'd go with The Fortune Cookie or Chelsea Girls for '66.
― clemenza, Monday, 15 August 2016 04:04 (seven years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Saturday, 20 August 2016 00:01 (seven years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Sunday, 21 August 2016 00:01 (seven years ago) link
Boom is tot garbage except to John Waters and his acolytes
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 21 August 2016 02:18 (seven years ago) link
i guess i shd see the Liz-Dick Taming of the Shrew at some point
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 21 August 2016 02:19 (seven years ago) link
obv wd've voted Va Woolf, but i'm p sure depending on what you allow the best Eng-lang film of '66 is either Chelsea Girls or The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 21 August 2016 02:27 (seven years ago) link
I wouldn't argue too hard with the above opinion, but as far as the Academy goes, no one in Hollywood would have seen those two movies in '66 - Chelsea Girls hit LA in Spring of '67 and The Good, the Bad and the Ugly finally arrived from Italy in '68. Of course had Academy voters seen them they probably would have hated them both. Fortunately we have better perspective than they did.
Taming of the Shrew is surprisingly good, it's kind of like Franco Zeffirelli's Romeo and Juliet but with celebrities
― Josefa, Sunday, 21 August 2016 06:08 (seven years ago) link
well that make sense as it's directed by FZ
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 21 August 2016 06:24 (seven years ago) link
knew that, just worded the comment poorly
― Josefa, Sunday, 21 August 2016 15:07 (seven years ago) link
FZ=Zappa?
― Deneb on Ice (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 21 August 2016 15:18 (seven years ago) link
Franko Zapparilli
― Josefa, Sunday, 21 August 2016 15:19 (seven years ago) link
Lol
― Deneb on Ice (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 21 August 2016 15:26 (seven years ago) link
still have never seen a Leone film; my deep, deep hatred of John Wayne and glorified machismo paired w/ blatant sexism keep me so far away from Westerns. Should I give one a chance?
― laraaji p. henson (Stevie D(eux)), Sunday, 21 August 2016 15:29 (seven years ago) link
Yes. Red River.
― Deneb on Ice (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 21 August 2016 15:35 (seven years ago) link
ew no i meant a Leone film!!!
― laraaji p. henson (Stevie D(eux)), Sunday, 21 August 2016 15:36 (seven years ago) link
I actually didn't hate Stagecoach though
― laraaji p. henson (Stevie D(eux)), Sunday, 21 August 2016 15:37 (seven years ago) link
but I've had to watch screenings of The Searchers for two diff film classes and bailed within 15 min both times.
What you don't get in the spaghettis that you do get in John Wayne films is sanctimoniousness. Spaghettis tend toward a sort of ironic amorality.
― Josefa, Sunday, 21 August 2016 15:53 (seven years ago) link
Btw not *all* John Wayne films
― Josefa, Sunday, 21 August 2016 15:56 (seven years ago) link
ya the utter lack of like playfulness or not-taking-ones-self-super-seriously-at-all-times is so rmde imo
― laraaji p. henson (Stevie D(eux)), Sunday, 21 August 2016 16:32 (seven years ago) link
there are plenty of Wayne westerns in which he's relaxed and playful (anything with O'Hara, Rio Bravo).
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 21 August 2016 16:49 (seven years ago) link
Red River is rather critical of his machismo iirc
― Deneb on Ice (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 21 August 2016 16:55 (seven years ago) link
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance may or may not be critical of Wayne's image, but it does play with it in an interesting way. That said, if Stevie hates Wayne, we should probably stop recommending Wayne flicks to him. As for Leone, The Good, The Bad and the Ugly (one of my favourite films) and Once Upon a Time in the West are aesthetically beautiful enough as films that it is possible to watch and enjoy them simply as experiences instead of getting caught up in the politics of the Western and all that.
― rhymes with "blondie blast" (cryptosicko), Sunday, 21 August 2016 17:26 (seven years ago) link
I've only seen 3 of the 5, but I'd say give Anthony Mann's westerns with James Stewart a shot.
― My name is Donald J. Trump, millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht. (WilliamC), Sunday, 21 August 2016 18:08 (seven years ago) link
tsk tsk Stevie, don't buy the received horseshit liberal pansy CW about westerns :)
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 21 August 2016 18:09 (seven years ago) link
opposed to the inertia of war
fort apache - sentimentality about The Cavalry complicated, like genuinely troubled, by the uses to which that sentimentality is bent
red river - there will be blood
the two dollars trilogy movies i have seen were absolutely infantile in comparison
― le Histoire du Edgy Miley (difficult listening hour), Sunday, 21 August 2016 18:20 (seven years ago) link
idk what happened there
wayne movies are good
v laid-back and often funny in she wore a yellow ribbon (this was the one that got cut off in last post) and rio bravo
― le Histoire du Edgy Miley (difficult listening hour), Sunday, 21 August 2016 18:24 (seven years ago) link
Before we return to our regular scheduled programming would like to say: the recent Wayne bio is really, really good.
― Deneb on Ice (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 21 August 2016 18:27 (seven years ago) link
Rio Grande too.
It's not a western obv but In Harm's Way is typically complex late Preminger w/a laidback and coquettish Wayne.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 21 August 2016 18:29 (seven years ago) link
xpost
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 21 August 2016 18:32 (seven years ago) link
And now we return to our regularly scheduled programming.
― Deneb on Ice (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 21 August 2016 18:36 (seven years ago) link
To bring this full circle, John Wayne's all-time favorite film was A Man for All Seasons (1966), therefore we can assume he was pleased Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? didn't win the '66 Oscar
― Josefa, Sunday, 21 August 2016 20:26 (seven years ago) link
Don't believe Wayne was a big fan of "New Hollywood."
― clemenza, Sunday, 21 August 2016 22:22 (seven years ago) link
I'm partial to Wayne's 3 '60s-'70s Howard Hawks movies: Hatari!, Rio Lobo and El Dorado. I love Boom--the John Barry soundtrack is just great, btw--and Taylor's other Joseph Losey movie, 1968's Secret Ceremony, with Robert Mitchum. Just as nuts as Boom.
― Edd Hurt, Monday, 22 August 2016 00:31 (seven years ago) link
"still have never seen a Leone film; my deep, deep hatred of John Wayne and glorified machismo paired w/ blatant sexism keep me so far away from Westerns. Should I give one a chance?"
--Yeah, Once Upon a Time in the West, in my opine the best Leone ever. Jason Robards is brilliant, Charles Bronson is bad-ass, Henry Fonda plays a bad guy, and Claudia Cardinale tames the west. Amazing set pieces, superb thematics--a real mix of humor and reverence for the west that you don't find in other Leone. I also like Duck, You Sucker, which is nutty and strangely moving, a kind of weird buddy picture set during the Mexican revolution.
― Edd Hurt, Monday, 22 August 2016 00:39 (seven years ago) link
imo clint eastwood's screen persona -- at least in the leone films -- is a lot more macho and obnoxious (and less complex and ambiguous and troubled) than john wayne's ever was. wayne often has a sort of sadness and melancholy about him, particularly in his later films, that i never feel w/ eastwood. so it's always been a little odd to me that ppl tend to unapologetically celebrate eastwood as this timeless cool icon but often feel the need to apologize for liking john wayne even a little bit. (obv wayne was a despicable right-winger in real life, but so was jimmy stewart and that doesn't seem to stop ppl from adoring him.) (nor should it!) greil marcus wrote something somewhere comparing wayne's character in red river to LBJ, which always stuck w/ me.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 22 August 2016 01:25 (seven years ago) link
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-l_kSeFbJG0w/UiaKGbyzPfI/AAAAAAAAA5Y/uxqVqJLIt10/s1600/stewarts+with+reagan+1986.jpg
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 22 August 2016 01:28 (seven years ago) link
in our cataloguing of despicability let's not forget whom clint shills for nowadays
― le Histoire du Edgy Miley (difficult listening hour), Monday, 22 August 2016 01:36 (seven years ago) link
wish i could edit post, i can't bring myself to think of jimmy stewart as despicable even if he did campaign for nixon
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 22 August 2016 01:43 (seven years ago) link
edd hurt otm (i think) that once upon a time is the leone to watch, which is why i keep meaning to. the dollars movies (the ones people mean when they enthuse about leone/clint) seemed to me blankly untroubled by even distorted history -- dioramas about dick, automatically unproblematic compared to anything that tries to engage.
― le Histoire du Edgy Miley (difficult listening hour), Monday, 22 August 2016 01:44 (seven years ago) link
the good the bad and the ugly is great but i don't think of it as a "western," sort of feels like it could be happening on some alien landscape somewhere
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 22 August 2016 01:45 (seven years ago) link
yeah exactly, which is fine but also maybe why it goes down smooth
― le Histoire du Edgy Miley (difficult listening hour), Monday, 22 August 2016 01:50 (seven years ago) link
(would also like to see once upon a time in america, haha)
Not as good as reputation suggests, but it's regal or something
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 22 August 2016 01:54 (seven years ago) link
― Deneb on Ice (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 22 August 2016 02:02 (seven years ago) link
i'm allergic to john wayne and love sergio leone fwiw. once upon a time in the west is great.
― map, Monday, 22 August 2016 02:16 (seven years ago) link
Once Upon a Time in the West is amazing in many ways, but it also strikes me as kind of a hybrid, like maybe the most American of all the Italian westerns. Henry Fonda is incredible in it and it's hard to believe he went back to doing crap westerns like The Cheyenne Social Club immediately thereafter.
― Josefa, Monday, 22 August 2016 03:03 (seven years ago) link
people thinking movie stars are the ppl they play or v v: dud
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 August 2016 03:46 (seven years ago) link
also, who cares?
your mom
― map, Monday, 22 August 2016 14:16 (seven years ago) link
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Monday, August 22, 2016 3:46 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i agree. the wayne persona has inspired and shaped the ethos of countless people in the actual west for the worse, where i live. it's totally dud. i'm glad you can retreat into your sacred sanctuary of canon where your favorite art is beyond reproach though.
― map, Monday, 22 August 2016 14:23 (seven years ago) link
i too long to return to the matriarchal idyll of western civilization's pre-stagecoach years
ad absurdum aside sorry john wayne's just not rly that john wayne in a lot of john wayne movies (and if he is the movie often regards him as an asshole -- cf not just obv the searchers but also red river and iirc rio grande, altho i get the lesser rios confused)
anyway. wish cleopatra was good, love me some antony+cleo
― le Histoire du Edgy Miley (difficult listening hour), Monday, 22 August 2016 23:00 (seven years ago) link
guys stop talking about dumb westerns on my Boom! thread
― laraaji p. henson (Stevie D(eux)), Tuesday, 23 August 2016 14:07 (seven years ago) link
i agree. the wayne persona has inspired and shaped the ethos of countless people in the actual west for the worse, where i live. it's totally dud.
Wayne persona was fairly comples. Art is not responsible for stupid people.
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 August 2016 14:19 (seven years ago) link
*complex
could be good, the theatre company is reputable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg8AwUXGd0g
― the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Monday, 21 May 2018 19:22 (five years ago) link