Why does white people never want to stay?

I mean Queens is pretty interesting because it's officially like the most diverse place in the country BUT there is a certain amount of segregation by neighborhood BUT those neighborhoods are very close together, often even sub neighborhoods or bi-ethnic/tri-ethnic neighborhoods. So I do think there's some clustering but also a lot of interaction at the edges, and then people's kids go to school together and stuff, and you do see a hell of a lot of multi-ethnic/multi-racial/multi-national couples.

i think most white people are PLENTY comfortable around other white people

I didn't say BEING uncomfortable, I said TALKING about being uncomfortable.

whither whites?

why would people in Portland have an opinion about DJP

lol if white people are moving to Forsyth County it's definitely because they're racist, regardless of where they're moving from

"I didn't say BEING uncomfortable, I said TALKING about being uncomfortable."

oh okay. i got that wrong. i guess i don't hear that a lot. for me it was just kind of a culture shock thing of going from philly where i lived for years and where i really appreciated all the different people from around the world that i met and also loved being around the awesome african-american, latino, asian, queer cultures there to - first - a small island that was about 90% white and then to where i am now which is a little better but still nothing you would call diverse. i still miss that too. it's a trade-off thing.

i am only really uncomfortable at the co-op market in town where there is a little too much oblivious boomer/npr/tincture action in too small a space for comfort.

Using a black ilx0r, especially one who hasn't even posted on this thread, as an avatar for all PoC is pretty gross, Aimless. I know, I know, you didn't mean anything by it, but seriously...

Completely otm. Actually scrolled back to see if he even posted here....

damn, I know that is outlying los angeles but that looks nearly identical to an area my friend lived in in north las vegas

― mh 😏, Thursday, August 25, 2016 7:48 PM (yesterday)

that just looks like a generic suburban California cul-de-sac to me. Plenty of those where I grew up -- based on the style of houses, the cream/beige color scheme and the fact that most of them are a single story with a decent sized lot, it looks like it was built in the 80s.

It seems totally weird to me that people would move because the schools were "too good." I vaguely remember those Campbell high schools having really good badminton teams.

i moved a few weeks ago to an area i liked because it's really close to public transport, an awesome park, and it isn't so whitified (in a city that's generally very white, nb). more hispanic people in the area. my roommate is cambodian, an engineer. i looked at one place that's in a very "white student and urban professional" neighborhood that i thought i liked from years ago because that's traditionally where a lot of suburbun whites end up when they're going to school at the university but i got the the heebie jeebies. i'm genuinely more comfortable in a mixed, slightly "rougher" less glossy neighborhood. it's why i'd honestly be happier living in a bigger, more diverse city. like, i have my habitual comfort zones wrt how i was raised but "more culturally diverse and dense" is definitely what i gravitate towards.

and honestly, these white people are being exceptionally short-sighted in terms of their children's education. If they can't compete against "the Asians" in high school, when they get to college (if they go to a "good school") it's just going to be even more of the same. They should give their children and themselves a better understanding of their relative excellence/mediocrity, rather than give them unrealistic expectations.

I'm also in Portland - our daughter attends a Japanese immersion school and now a Japanese teacher is living with us for six months as part of her education (which has been awesome). A lot of other families we know are also involved is this school/exchange program, so I guess what I'm saying is... I don't what I'm saying really. I guess that there is opportunity for the cultures to immerse with one another around here? Portland is still pretty fucked up tho esp regarding the African American community.

yep - aimless i'm sure you've read this?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/racist-history-portland/492035/

kudos for this thread title

oh and this just came up in the news this week:

http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2016/08/portland_public_schools_rap_mu.html

one step forwards, two steps back

Nora’s good at math. There are too many kids here good at math. They’re affecting her self-esteem.
Asian parents take their kids for extra tutoring. It’s not fair for the “regular” kids.
The high school is too competitive. My kids won’t get into a good college because of all of the Asians.

this is probably pretty fucked up and resentment-fueled on my part, but these quotes fill me with glee tbh

yes, good title! I thought it was going to more like what goes on where I live, where white ppl settle, have kids, and then move to whiter, more affluent areas once the oldest kid is school age. Though it's a sign of gentrification that apparently there are "enough good elementary schools" here that the white ppl aren't evacuating right before the oldest kid turns 5.

I went to a magnet school for high school that became plurality Asian a few years after I graduated, and from what I understand there was a bit of kerfuffle about this in the local media (I did not indulge in it)

i wish i could go back in time and tell little me and all the other south asian and east asian kids i went to school with that all the stereotyping of us as robotic nerds who studied all the time and jokes cracked at our expense was white people being afraid we were better than them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYZ_6JAUHO8
you can't even get whiter than this!

and honestly, these white people are being exceptionally short-sighted in terms of their children's education. If they can't compete against "the Asians" in high school, when they get to college (if they go to a "good school") it's just going to be even more of the same. They should give their children and themselves a better understanding of their relative excellence/mediocrity, rather than give them unrealistic expectations.

― sarahell, Friday, August 26, 2016 10:44 AM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is super otm. My family moved to a rural nowheresville before my junior year of high school so we could go to a 'safe' school. 'Safe' I guess meaning '99% white and pretty shitty as schools go and kids still brought guns to school and dumb rednecks still picked fights so what's even the point'. This is a large part of why I'm so dumb.

xp - lol I went to the same college as her. Not a point of pride, mind you.

What those parents are fleeing is exactly what I want for my kids -- an atmosphere where studying and excelling in school is valued.

but how will they ever learn to excel if they can't rely on institutionalized racism????

I went to her gym! xxp

So much racism is about white entitlement and not wanting to have to compete with anyone. Black people succeed? Affirmative action! Not fair! This is a meritocracy! Asian people succeed? They're too competitive! They work too hard! They're too smart!

it's never they're too smart, though. it has to be framed as a lack--they lack humanity. that applies to both anti-black and anti-asian racism, actually, though the stereotype plays out differently.

why can't these parents just accept and appreciate that little Nora et al. are just as unimpressive mediocrities as they are, and raise their children to derive happiness from their unextraordinary futures as insurance adjusters and administrative assistants?

like, this asian kid gets better grades than nora, but nora has a better personality.

xp right I mean it wouldn't be worded as "they're too smart" but maybe "they have a genetic predisposition to math" or something like that that doesn't sound like a complement.

because the fiction holding everything up is that white people are the best. any challenging evidence needs to be reinterpreted.

xp right

it's the same kinds of things people used to say about Jews and still sometimes do, quietly -- successful only because "clannish" "nerdy" "study all the time and don't go outside/play sports" "help their own kind" "scheming" "crafty/good at finding shortcuts" etc.

non-white success is a product of tricks, workarounds, cheats etc.

hey we learned it from watching them amirite

White flight is an easy racism call to make. I don't even view it as white people not wanting to have to compete too much, but rather, white people surveying the situation, and realizing they won't necessarily have the power to control the general direction of things, neighborhood association or otherwise.

White flight in urban areas is an interesting phenomenon because there was economic self-reinforcement going on -- even someone who didn't particularly care whether his neighbors were black or latino faced declining property values, not to mention, in some cases, deliberate campaigns by property speculators to push them out. Don't think either of those things are the issue here though.

The thing I don't get about people who get all excited about living in an area where there's all different kinds of people is the implication that they talk to and otherwise interact with their neighbors. I mean, what kind of psycho does that? I'm the only white person in my apartment building, but I don't care, because those other people are strangers. I ignore them and go about my own business, as we all should.

i worked in public for years in philly. i talked to a zillion people. i didn't know my neighbors too well though.

I know a decent number of my neighbors. Kids have had a playdate with the family on one side and my older daughter will likely be entering K in a year at the same school as their older daughter. Regularly chat with the older couple on the other side, couple a few floors above us has been over a couple times with their baby, at least a handful of other neighbors that I chat with in the halls and/or say hi to. May be something about owning in a co-op vs just renting that makes that happen. But I'm also relatively friendly, have always chatted with neighbors. The place this was least true was in Williamsburg, when we lived in a building that was pretty much all twenty-somethings and then we had a baby and were the only couple in the building with a kid. Even when I was in law school I befriended the professional pianist who lived below me and practiced all day (he was grandfathered into the building when it was bought by the school).

we're not all antisocial sociopaths, I find having relationships with my neighbors to be very valuable, useful, and enjoyable. I know a ton of people in my building, our kids play together, we watch out for each other etc.

Yeah, it's a huge benefit imo. We're also right across from the playground so we know like a dozen other families that also all live right around the playground and are there regularly.

yea i really value good relationships w/ neighbors, we just moved to a neighborhood where everyone says hi to each other and it is really nice, people hanging out on front porches all the time and wave when we walk by

beyond that kinda stuff it just seems useful from a practical, self-interested perspective too. like if you get locked out of your place, or if you need to borrow a can opener, or need someone to pick up your mail/packages while you're away, or there's some emergency or something.

i've discovered that all of the neighbors around us are incredibly nice and helpful and kind and social, though there are plenty of nextdoor.com neighbors who, to cite an actual example, want to use the fact that gardeners use gas-powered leaf blowers as a pretext for mass deportations.

when we moved into our house not a single person said a word to us. except our next door neighbor and that's only because we shared a driveway with him and he had to say something to us. sometimes i wish all the old fart white people would move to florida and a bunch of asian families would move in.

it's kinda olde-tymey here. when the next door neighbor who we shared a driveway with moved - was glad he left he had tons of handguns - a great young artist couple moved in and they are awesome and so nice.

i don't think anyone here can afford to move to florida here when they get old. so they just grow old in the house they've lived in for a million years until it falls down around them. and i don't hate old people but there is a very large older population here and i feel like you kinda have to get younger people into a town to keep that town lively. just a theory i have.

(the guy with the guns ON THE DAY WE MOVED IN informed us that if the neighbor on the other side of us ever came on his property he would shoot him with his pistol. welcome to the neighborhood!)

lol the only person I know who has guns is the dude across the street who loves hunting and fishing. he works a union factory job, is older but not retirement age yet, and one of the friends of his who comes over the most is a black dude with a pickup

he had some neighbors hanging out in his backyard once, and when I came over he determined I like whiskey and gave me a big old glass of evan williams. when I left he tried to give me a whole frozen trout

with guns in my neighborhood, that is

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/a-southern-city-wants-to-secede-from-its-school-district-raising-concerns-about-segregation/2016/08/25/13ce5398-694f-11e6-99bf-f0cf3a6449a6_story.html

OH FFS

Just gonna put this here even though probably nobody on this thread needs to be told again:

A 2014 study conducted by Rucker Johnson, a public-policy professor at the University of California at Berkeley, published by the National Bureau of Economic Research, found desegregation’s impact on racial equality to be deep, wide, and long-lasting. Johnson examined data on a representative sample of 8,258 American adults born between 1945 and 1968, whom he followed through 2011. He found that black Americans who attended schools integrated by court order were more likely to graduate, go on to college, and earn a degree than black Americans who attended segregated schools. They made more money: five years of integrated schooling increased the earnings of black adults by 15 percent. They were significantly less likely to spend time in jail. They were healthier.

Notably, Rucker also found that black progress did not come at the expense of white Americans—white students in integrated schools did just as well academically as those in segregated schools. Other studies have found that attending integrated schools made white students more likely to later live in integrated neighborhoods and send their own children to racially diverse schools.

Melissa Dent attended her first integrated class as a middle-schooler, in 1980, as a result of the court order. But by the time she graduated from Central eight years later, integration in the South had already reached its high-water mark. The percentage of black and white students attending school together would never be greater.

At Central, Dent quickly made a name for herself as a premier athlete. Her track team took the state title twice, and she was named Alabama’s top female high-school track performer in 1987. More important, the school introduced her to people from different backgrounds. Neither her mother nor her father had gone to college, yet her classmates—some of whose fathers were attorneys or business owners—planted that seed. “All my friends were talking about college and wanting to do better,” she told me. “I’ve always been ambitious, and I wanted to do better too.”

As part of the first generation born outside the constraints of Jim Crow, Dent has not lived out a Horatio Alger Jr. fable. Much like the story of integration, her story is one of fits and starts, of grinding progress and battles to hang on to the gains. In her sophomore year of college, she got pregnant. She came back home and had her baby. But she then returned to school, walking onto the track team at the University of Alabama and graduating in 1995.

Now 45 and a single mother of four, she works on the assembly line at the Mercedes-Benz plant just outside of town. Her work is physically taxing, but she fought to get the factory gig, a coveted job in the area, because it paid more than she’d ever earned as a teaching assistant, the job she had after college. Unlike her father, she owns her West End home, a brick fixer-upper she bought eight years ago, after falling in love with its den and big backyard.

Dent called herself “average, very average,” as a student, but like her own parents, she hopes that education will take her children further than it has taken her.

Her children’s academic medals and certificates clutter the living-room walls in her house. It is clear in conversation that Melissa never expected to count the opportunity for a quality education among the things she would be unable to provide for her children. She said she’d assumed that she’d be the bridge between her father’s Jim Crow generation and a new generation for whom integration was natural.

Dent said her high-school class had formed a lasting bond. Even now, she said, if she called on any of her white fellow alums, like the prominent lawyer she’d reconnected with during a recent class reunion, they would remember her. She believes D’Leisha, a child every bit as outgoing as her mother is reserved, would have formed a rainbow coalition of friends if she’d attended the old Central, and made connections that could have helped her in the future.

She glanced at D’Leisha. “My girls are not experiencing that.”

this is probably pretty fucked up and resentment-fueled on my part, but these quotes fill me with glee tbh

I really enjoyed the idea of white parents being afraid that their kids are too dumb to hack it in 'Asian-dominated' high schools.

http://gothamist.com/2016/09/29/uws_school_zoning_battle.php

Using a black ilx0r, especially one who hasn't even posted on this thread, as an avatar for all PoC is pretty gross, Aimless.

in trying to recapture my thinking, I believe I was specifically using said ilxor as an avatar of a middle class PoC, in that said ilxor attended an ivy league school, sings opera, and most likely would be viewed by my white middle class neighbors as more like themselves than not. the importance of that fact in my mind was that it would eliminate class-based considerations from how well or ill he might be welcomed. but, your perspective on grossness noted.

using said ilxor as an avatar

xxp - why don't they just send their kids to private school, since they're obviously affluent enough to afford to buy homes in Manhattan?

think private schools in MHT are pretty hard to get into?

they just need more of them