Free Folk/New Weird America/Brattleboro festival types

I guess Vibra were a bit more Terry Rileyesque drone than most of the ppl on this list, but the one time I saw them live there was definitely a freak folk side to their music-making, too (not least in the way that they swapped instruments during the course of their set). Think I've said before that this was at an ATP where Jackie O Motherfucker were on the same stage, same day, and were absolutely wretched in comparison.

I instead voted for NNCK, who I saw live twice, first time a very late night show in a church in Hackney (attended by at least three other former/current ilxors that I know abt) when David Nuss placed a big drum on top of a speaker stack that miraculously didn't topple over. Wonderful bit of in-the-moment showmanship and bravado.

really dug some of the Thuja stuff.. would love to hear more of it. Any album suggestions for them?

This was definitely a "thing" but a lot/most of these people are still active, many of them in the same or very similar projects. Probably the single most important scene for shaping my taste overall.

Missing Paul Flaherty, he could've been lumped in with Corsano I guess

"Btw I made a mixtape for a friend a year ago... it's not strictly psychfolk but it might be of interest in this thread since it features some of these artists. (Warning: It might be a terrible, half-assed playlist. Couldn't get my friend into the genre):"

that looks like a really good mixtape to me!

Voted for Charalambides, even though a lot of my favourite works of theirs were released in the 90s, before this scene really got started.

What's a good place to start with MV + EE?

I wonder if the 'demise' of this scene - and the associated noise scene - can be partly traced to the decline in the desirability of CDRs. At pretty much every free folk/noise show I went to there would be a table full of handmade CDRs etc that were obviously v cheap to produce (and sold inexpensively) that must've generated a decentish slice of income for these groups/performers - at the very least, they must've helped quite a bit with touring expenses.

I don't think the kind of people who bought those CDRs would be put off from doing so by any perceived decline in their desirability. It's true that touring has become less and less economic but that applies across the board I think. I remember the first time I saw Sunburned Hand of the Man there were seven of them. The next time there were four and last time I saw them they were down to a duo.

interesting to read everyone’s takes on this and how they encountered it. just before I heard this stuff I’d been into jim o’rourke/cul de sac etc., read perfect sound forever, was fast getting into the likes of skip james, dock boggs etc. and had just bought 20+ Fahey albums so it felt like the most natural thing in the world to me.

I see the key aspect which brought a lot of this together as an attitude, a certain mode of looseness. stylistically loose and open, rhythmically loose - which has obvious pragmatic origins but a lot of these people kept/developed/aimed for that feel - as well as an often oblique approach to structure and developing tracks that seemed distinctive to me. it felt very purposefully narcotic and detached. as a result I see the core of this as the big improv groups - sunburned/nnck/jomf/tower recordings - and the live shows where no one had any idea where things were building towards, those pieces where the guiding energy was diffuse, and things might suddenly coalesce round some unexpected moment, which could be a guttural cry or someone getting up to crawl over chairs at the side of the room. the anonymous/egoless quality of a lot of this music was crucial, in terms of shaping the scene and politically, as well as in giving people confidence to let loose and get weird. if everyone’s an outsider then no one has to worry about it. the primacy of the collective was important.

spiralling off that core you had the proper droners (lots of people going modal and championing Indian music), the loop pedal solo acts (some regrettable live shows but will always v fondly remember fursaxa getting out the sellotape mid set to fix down her droning keys, and my friend talked v fondly of a swirling alexander tucker set that culminated in him hitting the wrong pedal, everything suddenly cutting dead and then a quiet cry of “bollocks!”), the singer-songwriters (ranging from british-tinged prettiness to desolate primal thumpers like dead raven choir), and my beloved fingerpickers, which was always a slightly separate strand & which has been able to continue under its own steam.

this was the first scene I followed that had a decent number of women involved. idk if its whiteness would have seemed offputting to anyone but I thought it’s relaxed coolness made it pretty approachable. the fluidity was a big part of the appeal, the way it reached out to incorporate/mingle with other scenes and acts, lots of great and unexpected bills.

other omissions/adjacent things: sun city girls/richard bishop, tetuzi akiyami, ignatz, current 93, michael hurley, steffen basho junghans

i'm with lamp on espers ii, that might be my favorite record that came out of this stuff. a lot of it was not really song-based enough for me but as a whole it was a cool scene.

one thing that i don't really get the inclusion of is califone who i like a lot but are much more of a straight-up indie rock band in my mind.

Wow — no Magik Markers?

yeah, lotta glaring omissions here, and MM may be the most egregious. Meanwhile, much as I dig Glenn Jones, Metzger, White Magic, Califone, etc, these bands had almost nothing to do with this scene

ogmor otm about the role of women in this scene, which was one of the best thing about it. Most of these larger groups were pretty co-ed, and the 'stars' and heroes of this scene, in my view, are people like Elisa Amborogio, Meg Baird, Erika Elder, Christina Carter, Samara Lubelski, etc

Also, despite my saying the word 'scene' three times there, the 'scene' (not centrally located obviously) was almost entirely invented by journalists. Most of these bands were making music before New Weird America bin cards and many continue to make music now. The only difference was that people were, for a little while, paying attention to this shit and not, you know, garage punk or witch house or vaporwave or whatever

I think MM were on my poll

i haven't listened to magik markers in a decade but were they not more noise rocky than this list?

lol I knew making it a poll wld have its rewards

you can try to define this aesthetically, or in terms of social networks/gigs/festivals, but I'm curious what about it was exactly that caught people's imaginations, even if those people were journalists. if there's an important distinction between two acoustic guitarists who both sound a lot like Fahey and tour and collaborate together then that would be interesting to try to tease out! magik markers were on the edge of a few things but I generally saw them as having a more intense rock energy but if you feel they were profoundly freefolk then I'd love to hear it. there was ofc plenty of overlap with the freakfolk newsom/banhart types too, and the long hair & skirts, the plaid and beards were omnipresent throughout. plenty of indieish bands were making nods in this direction, I want to know why ppl felt the pull of the twang at that time

"Btw I made a mixtape for a friend a year ago... it's not strictly psychfolk but it might be of interest in this thread since it features some of these artists. (Warning: It might be a terrible, half-assed playlist. Couldn't get my friend into the genre):"

that looks like a really good mixtape to me!

― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), miércoles 16 de noviembre de 2016 11:35 (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Thank you! Most of those are not on spotify which is a damn shame (at least latin spotify, it seems us and europe have more artists).

This poll/thread comes at just the right time for me. This is the right season (in the northern hemisphere at least) for this music. Been listening a lot of psych folk + beth gubboms & rustin mann + goldfrapp's seventh tree.

Going off topic but criminally inderrated album that one by Goldfrapp. Recorded on october/november and released in february which I think is the fault of its failure to conenvt. Should've been released at the end of summer.

Connect*

Underrated*

Writing on mobile is hard.

xp I guess I think of MM because Pete Nolan was in like a bunch of these kindsa bands: Virgin Eye Blood Brothers, Vanishing Voice, Believers, Spectre Folk, etc. And John Shaw (Magik Markers bassist after Leah left) was in Son of Earth (also neglected in this poll), Believers, etc. Also, Elisa made some great (and overlooked) records with Chasny that absolutely fit the bill here

I get that if you open the poll up to everyone who ever played a tambourine on an MV record it would get quite unwieldy and ridiculous, but as far as the Magik Markers connection, I feel they belong here way more than Glenn Jones does. I get that he's very popular right now with the post-Takoma people but I don't remember anyone jamming Cul De Sac records back then.

As for the "pull of the twang," I have no idea! It is a good question worth exploring, though, and I'm glad you (ogmor) made a poll about it (despite all the bellyaching about exclusions / inclusions!)

Also weird how little overlap this scene had with the No Depression / alt country crowd, despite sharing many aesthetics / influences. Weren't these things happening more or less simultaneously? Was Son Volt just too trad for Double Leopards fans and Kemialliset Ystavat just too darn weird for Wilco bros? This still doesn't explain why the Vetivers, Devendras, etc of the world didn't penetrate the alt country universe

i dunno, someone like steve gunn at this point has his foot in this scene and whatever's left of the alt-country thing.

Writing on mobile is hard.

― No longer active (Moka)

true but it makes me irrationally happy to see you talk about "beth gubboms" :)

I'd have to vote for the orig tower lineup of mv/hr/pg6, for reasons many of you can fathom.

other top 9 many of whom have become friends-

charalambides
pg6 solo
nnck
6 organs
willie lane
jack/pelt
blithe sons (unforgettable live)
currituck co.
& write in for bardo pond who were contemporary w the roots of this scene

and
good doors covr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYF1WAMnV48

Excerpted rundown of this scene: folks who could, and possibly would, do a righteous Doors cover.

jack rose loved the doors!

u kno, i'll thro in a write in for loren connors.

i talked to metzger abt his influences once, he said Indian classical music, a kinda breezy not-hip but great fingerstyle player Duck Baker...he said DEVO changed his life and was the most amazing thing he ever saw, then he listed a bunch of classic rock bands like Pink Floyd, the Doors, Zeppelin, Queen etc

he claimed to never have heard of Fahey until the name started popping up in his reviews

:)

Blackshaw, Jack Rose and Charalambides are the three that jump out at me. I don't know if there is anything particularly unifying about that list, beyond a kind of vague, questing secular transcendentalism (which I couldn't hope to define with any rigour, but might be just fine to be going on with).

Baird/Espers, Jack Rose, Glenn Jones and Six Organs are probably the ones listed here that I jam on a regular basis. A lot I haven't even heard! Does seem like you could put together a cool box set documenting this scene ...

Give Numero or LITA about six years

^^^ vomit

Three Lobed has done a good job covering this over the years with their box sets: MV+EE, Wooden Wand, Bardo Pond, Six Organs, Jack Rose, Tom Carter, Magik Markers, Sunburned Hand, etc. etc.

With the Espers love, the Greg Weeks solo records are really great as well.

Some sleepers and also-ran operators from this scene:

Asa Irons And Swaan Miller
Cursillistas
Steven R. Smith
Grouper
Barn Owl and related
Joshua Burkett

this keijo guy looks cool, must be a grandpappy of Finnish psych weirdness?

I wonder if the 'demise' of this scene - and the associated noise scene - can be partly traced to the decline in the desirability of CDRs. At pretty much every free folk/noise show I went to there would be a table full of handmade CDRs etc that were obviously v cheap to produce (and sold inexpensively) that must've generated a decentish slice of income for these groups/performers - at the very least, they must've helped quite a bit with touring expenses.

― Darcy Sarto (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, November 16, 2016 6:49 AM (eleven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is otm. i remember so many shows in the mid/late '00s with noise bands and this whole scene with march tables just overflowing with stuff, CD-Rs all with handmade covers/containers covered in sticks and leaves and shit. usually spray painted. that completely died off around the turn of the decade.

tbh I hated trying to file CDRs made with twigs and fingerpaintings and stuff, usually just stored the discs in slimline cases and stuck the 'artwork' in a box someplace. As an unintended result, I'm sure most of the CDRs I bought back then still actually play!

I remember some of these CDrs going for >$75 on eBay at one time. Crazy days

The massive '08-'10 (?) Recession, and high gas prices, hurt many artists surviving on the margins. It's one thing when you're breaking even and having fun, going for it... and who knows what will happen next. It's another when you're losing money doing live music and your dayjob has disappeared too. Very hard to get thru that. And of course, as always, life happens.

I'm afraid that I'd vote almost entirely on who of these were cool to work with and who were entitled prima donnas and assholes. Like some of these artists in this scene were the shittiest to work with as a venue person/sound person of any of the "scenes" that came through.

not to come across as super negative -- some were totally awesome. Jack Rose was probably one of my favorite touring musicians to work with.

^^^^^^^^^^^ No Neck Blues Band ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Like some of these artists in this scene were the shittiest to work with as a venue person/sound person of any of the "scenes" that came through.

― sarahell, Wednesday, November 16, 2016 7:18 PM (forty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

name and shame!

Xxxpost Lol I didnt even notice I wrote Beth Gubboms.

Liked/loved a lot of these artists and hippy posturing aside I think a lot of the music still stands up. Um:

No Neck Blues Band
Six Organs of Admittance
MV + EE/Bummer Road
Jack Rose/Pelt
Meg Baird/Espers
Hush Arbors
Charalambides/Christina Carter/Tom Carter
Paavoharju
Marissa Nadler
Josephine Foster/Born Heller

I only saw a few of these live but for me this music is strongly associated with some of my first Internet wormholes, also blog/shop combos like Digitalis and Volcanic Tongue.

:/ This looks like a list of artists with no relation to each other either in genre or intention or effect

If it's free folk then I'd vote Cerebus Shoal/Big Blood by a long shot, my favourite records are the one they made with Larkin (Parplar) and their side of the split with Herman Dune (The Hows And Whys Of)

If it's primitivism then it's James Blackshaw. If it's "songs" then Josephine Foster. What the heck is Kemialliset Ystavat doing on this list, imo they are the best act on this list.

"Why did this happen" + "what was the appeal" + "how does this relate to mainstream tastes" = I don't know if there ever was a time when the genres these artists respectively represent didn't exist. There was a bubble where suddenly Sunburned Hand Of Man and Supersilent and Black Dice were getting high numbers on Pitchfork and people my age were paying attention. Then, the meritocratic nature of decimal-based rating systems started to have their influence on what was considered "good", and bands like NNCK and Wolf Eyes who other artists who made great-but-not-good records were less covered and/or paid attention to, in favour of artists who ticked all the boxes for "what qualifies as a great album" (S*fjan, J*anna); bands that could've been great like gee idk Vetiver? started chasing that decimal-point dragon, making good records instead of great ones, and then acoustic instruments went out of style for a decade

Surprised no one has mentioned Terrastock as the uniting aesthetic here.

xp I guess I'm slinging around "good" and "great" kind of weirdly but when I type "good" I mean "functional, broadly appealing, well-mixed, saleable", and when I type "great" I mean "actually worth listening to"

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

fair enough, but zero votes for JOMF is crazy

lol whoops forgot to vote that woulda been mine

lol I forgot to vote in this, but the results seem about right. I’m sympathetic to the impulse behind fgti’s objections & I think the differences between groups/pieces are always worth bearing in mind and sometimes more salient than the similarities, but I don’t really agree on any of the specifics. to say that ‘primitivism’ is a coherent style discrete from ‘free folk’ is a nonsense which ignores acts like SOOA&Pelt as well as the massive upswing in finger-picked guitar round this time, and I don’t see much use for the term primitive, which includes lots of guitarists who sound nothing alike while excluding many others, mostly on a demographic/audience basis (which ofc has social/political implications). You can try to broaden it out and talk about alternative tunings and looser, repetitive structures but then you include a lot of other acts on this list.

I still think there was a core impulse/vibe, which manifested in different forms but drew a lot of different strands together and created a lot of overlap, its messy, woolly nature being part of the point. If there were bands that sounded like this stuff in 1990 or whenever I’d love to hear them. I think the reissues and acts that had their reputations boosted during this period is a crucial part too, moka mentioned vashti bunyan and linda perhacs, and there’s also robbie basho, henry flynt, & pleasing weird little one-offs records

anyway here’s a top 10 of records that don’t fit together & yet do:

Sunburned Hand of the Man – Jaybird
Six Organs of Admittance – For Octavio Paz
NNCK – Sticks and stones maybe break my bones but names can never hurt me
Christina Carter – Living contact
Chris Corsano – The Young Cricketer
Jackie O’Motherfucker – Change
Glenn Jones – This is the wind that blows it out
Pelt – Ayahuasca
Double Leopards – Halve Maen
Jack Rose – Red horse, white mule (or really the ‘two originals of…’ CD with opium musick)

Good list Ogmor. Definitely some favorites of mine in there (that I still listen to regularly). Spot on with the 90s reissues I think as well. Stuff like Henry Flynt becoming somewhat available, or at least more acknowledged, certainly worked its magic into informing a lot of this stuff.

I was listening to Graduation earlier this week and the guitar on that is unlike anything else I've heard & so sweet. love to hear more people borrow from flynt

Oh yeah man, I could listen to endless variations of that. I would if I could hah hah.