Any reason why ILM is so quiet these days?

hoo boy.

Made it through this discussion, mostly made me sad that forks' spotify-lists for 2017 aren't up yet :(

leech

Also weird to me how Spotify's unfairness to artists is always an afterthought.

― Wimmels

who has the moral authority to argue from that position? not me. i come from soulseek, from napster, and when i had to draw the line between what i would and would not do it wasn't on the side of the artists. the best i could say is that i would never pay money to steal, and that's why i'm not on spotify, because when i look at what they pay artists it looks like legalized theft to me.

but musicians don't get a fair shake from me, never will, and if i wanted to be truly fair to artists on an individual level i'd listen to a hell of a lot less music. and on a collective level, i'm convinced that musicians never have and never will get a fair shake under free market capitalism. choosing to vocally disapprove of spotify isn't going to change that.

ILX: The Book

Spotify just doing what agents, managers, club owners, promoters, etc. have done for decades. don't hate the player hate the game

Spotify should have a tipping option.

To return to the thread question though, a big factor might be more people on ILM coming to terms with their or the board's limitations re representation (don't really want to say diversity as it can and has been well argued more as normalisation).

This was suggested in a few different ways already I realise - even ogmor's post re 'a lot of the ppl whose meanness is bemoaned are often outside of the consensus & not coincidentally some of the most interesting & valuable posters' points to it. I prefer to read that as an explanation of any meanness rather than an actual justification of it tho (including the use of 'dad' as an insult).

That and the msg board model seeming outmoded to a younger crowd (tho this could flip back as people in turn react to the evident limitations of social media channels would it also pull more younger people to places like ILM?) seem like the bigger problems than whether there are too many polls and playlists.

i keep telling you guys, you can make polls invisible. i did that so that i would actually stop complaining about polls. you're welcome. #bethechangeyouwanttosee

I think the complaint is the artist polls which cant be hidden? But I also think its more an idealogical hatred of polls that even while hidden they still exist and are popular and that annoys some posters?

The fear is on the one hand that the board will end up being vicperry'd back to the stone age without a baseline level of what is being called "meanness" and on the other that the inquisitive teens whose input will apparently bring meaning into the lives of the 30somethings who post here might be put off; the truth is probably that neither scenario is v likely and registration will never match/exceed natural attrition with or without what is essentially just the house style of the internet: both sets of people are busy posting in the exact same tone on social media

you yourself Scott (and others) tried to kill threads in the past you didn't like with image floods and I'm glad that's gone out of fashion

Are there even artist polls anymore? I quit after I found that participating in a few was enough to completely kill my enthusiasm for the artists in question.

inquisitive teens whose input will apparently bring meaning into the lives of the 30somethings who post here might be put off

not just teens, all the other things the dickdads are not too!

should i put flyers for ILM up around my local university? i might do it anyway.

i liked some of the artist polls - the floyd one was good - but some of them (like the eno one) just wound up as canon retreads unfortunately.

dads are a chilling vision of a possible future

Are there even artist polls anymore? I quit after I found that participating in a few was enough to completely kill my enthusiasm for the artists in question.

― how's life,

stirmonster is doing a 60s poll at some point in the next few months and he will ban canon stuff like beatles, stones etc. the funny thing is I dont think there's ever been a 60s ballot poll before so those who would want that might have their noses put out of joint.

dads are a chilling vision of a possible future

― ogmor, Wednesday, February 8, 2017 11:21 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is a good tagline for the flyer. i was also considering "the messageboard deej doesn't want you to see"

you could run a who is gabbo deej campaign

maybe ilm should merge with another struggling message board, in "Weekend magazine incorparating Titbits" fashion

Whizzer AND Chips

imdb just dumped their boards according to the guardian

I Love Movie Databases

The 'M' in 'ILM' always meant Morbs anyway, right?

This was suggested in a few different ways already I realise - even ogmor's post re 'a lot of the ppl whose meanness is bemoaned are often outside of the consensus & not coincidentally some of the most interesting & valuable posters' points to it. I prefer to read that as an explanation of any meanness rather than an actual justification of it tho (including the use of 'dad' as an insult).

The problem, I think, is at some point the "arguments" became the least interesting thing about this board. Eight years ago maybe they played out as exciting exchanges of ideas, but these days most of the informed, sharply argued debates about music seem to take place on Twitter, where there's more accountability and focus. So the debates here more often than not just end up being a bunch of aggro critics bros trying to pwn each other. That might be entertaining if you understand the group politics and know who turrican is, but if you don't (and even most regular posters here don't), then it just ends up being impenetrable--especially to lurkers, who understandably avoid the convo for fear of being hazed themselves.

imdb just dumped their boards according to the guardian

at least something good happened this year

stirmonster is doing a 60s poll at some point in the next few months and he will ban canon stuff like beatles, stones etc. the funny thing is I dont think there's ever been a 60s ballot poll before so those who would want that might have their noses put out of joint.

― Odysseus

how the hell is stirmonster determining "canon"? rym rankings or something?

i'd be cool with a poll where the top artists are les goths and stella, mind.

might be entertaining if you understand the group politics and know who turrican is

new board description

see you in 600 posts

― I Am In Atlanta And Thug Is Young (imago), Monday, 6 February 2017 17:16 (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

turrican is known as universal soldier on the megadrive

These days I come to ILM less for the debates over current music controversies, which are covered to death on Twitter, and more for the specialized threads that let certain critics advocate music that doesn't attract much attention elsewhere. Like the Dawn Richard, Kehlani, Julien Baker and Pinegrove threads that last year have been nice little communities, however small. They're not the most exciting or heated threads, obviously, but they're the ones providing a depth of conversation I can't find elsewhere, in part because there's no barrier to entry.

how the hell is stirmonster determining "canon"? rym rankings or something?

i'd be cool with a poll where the top artists are les goths and stella, mind.

― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy),

He wants a 60s version of the 70s and 80s polls i did. He had been asking me to do it since the 70s poll ended as he really loved those polls. He said the 80s one actually brought him back to ILM and he rediscovered his love of the place through it.
But noone can decide what is and isnt allowed so i just said to him you choose you wanted the poll but i'll help out if he wants but hes in charge.
I think there may be discussion of the 60s poll on the 70s results page somewhere. Honestly 2 years on and we still couldnt decide. But it was quite clear people did not want a poll with results that looked like mojo!

check there ILM's Now For Something Completely Different... 70s Album Poll Results! Top 100 Countdown! (Part 2)

Tactical polling

I'm not particularly interested in relitigating the forks playlist issue but just for the record if that's something you want to do, maybe you should consider reading the thread first, so you can avoid making easily disproved claims like ''nobody was attacking him for (x) it was only about (y),'' and maybe even consider adjusting your comments to address often-made points like ''wait so explain to me how the third-party YouTube links in the original rolling threads were better for the artists than Spotify.''

Re: ILX as a welcoming space etc., I think there's lots of interesting things to consider. In the spirit of challenging received wisdom I think it'd be fun to parse whether the site and its customs are indeed optimized for the most robust and least toxic discussion possible. If I were desgning my dream site from the ground up I suspect it'd look 90+% like ILX. We really do have something great here and that's why I'm still around after eleven years. But maybe we shouldn't take it as assumed that it's the raddest most nclusive form of board/community and that the historcally masculine-gendered sink-or-swim agonism that folks are often eager to defend is the best way of building community and discussion.

I do know other groups and spaces for example where some of the norms here would be seen as hopelessly biased in favor of letting loud shitty people run free for a shockingly long time. Not advocatiing for any reforms in particular here but just in the spirit of recognizing how rules and customs shape a culture: how would ILX be different if, say, 15 SBs/FBs was seen as sufficient for someone to need a timeout? If one request to lock a thread for being toxic or offensive was enough to trigger a temporary lock and review? If we stated upfront on the login/registration page that that this was a space opposed to all forms of harassment and dehumanization? If we had the offcial or collective intolerance for personal flames of your average dial-up BBS from the mid-90s? My neighborhood pizza joint has a sign establishing their opposition to racism, sexism, ageism, body-shaming etc.; when I put that against something like the Barenaked Ladies album cover thread, I think it's hard to sustain the idea that whatever its pros and cons ILX is basically as inclusive and anti-toxicity as you can possibly ask for.

lol keeping in mind one of the optimo posters around glasgow used to advertise the night as OMITPOP (which wasn't really accurate but anyway)

xpost obv

Tl;dr: I think ILX is pretty great but let's not kid ourselves into accepting as normal and healthy whatever level of hazing and nastiness that we've personally gotten used to, because by remaining here through it we have self-selected a population that accepts these conditions, and maybe let stand a lot of customs or practices that really would not fly elsewhere.

"you yourself Scott (and others) tried to kill threads in the past you didn't like with image floods and I'm glad that's gone out of fashion"

i did a lot of things. i have no regrets. i don't remember doing that to any normal thread that someone started. usually just did that if someone was trolling or being idiotic. and usually it was someone i didn't know/not a regular. someone would just pop up and be a jerk.

this is ancient past you are talking about....

is there still hazing here?

did we figure out whose sock Treeship was?

:)

the offcial or collective intolerance for personal flames of your average dial-up BBS from the mid-90s

lol

I don't know who Turrican is, just that he's one of my favorite posters. In fact, most of my faves have chimed in here so I take it as a sign that our community is fairly self-aware and healthy.

I'll never understand the knee-jerk aggro response to "someone is wrong on the internet!". It's not my job to correct anyone's opinion, though facts should be sorted.

I don't know who Turrican is, just that he's one of my favorite posters.

0_o

let's all user our government names so this stops being a problem

I used to think a Turrican was a bird, but have since learned it was a video game.

2 cents from a (mostly) lurker: I've noticed the board moving to more specialized/obscure artists and topics over the years, as, I guess, the canon has come to seem redundant here. It's a more niche board than it used to be. Not a bad thing, but niche usually means fewer people.

I used my real name to get work. Totally worked too.

It's niche, except when we're doing artist polls and album-specific revives of canonical acts, at which point the niche people bemoan the board's coverage of dinosaur acts. It takes all kinds I think.

btw sorry for my super long post above, was just caffeinated and going bonkers on my phone. didn't even really get to some of the things I wanted to say - like I actually think having a stickied "board jargon and oft-referenced things" post could be as useful or more than anything else I threw out there.