Trump's America, March 2017: Using His Inside VOICE

Secession is not defeatist. It's irrational to think that this country will ever recover from what Trump has already done. Is it defeatist for Scotland to try to leave the UK? There is no fighting the Trump part of the country. Let them have their racist, tax-free heartland.

― brotherlovesdub, Monday, March 13, 2017 1:40 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you are comparing breaking a country up on ideological lines to leave a disproportionately large chunk of the poor, and ethnic minority population up to the mercies of a sort of neo-confederacy vs. the sovereignty movement of a thousand year old country whose main arguments for separation are to avoid the conservatism, xenophobia and atlanticist isolationism that pervades uk politics

atlanticist isolationism

this is a garbled nightmare of a compound term that makes no sense but what i meant is the idea that britain should turn away from the eu and towards an isolated position where we look to the special relationship and trump as our closest allies

always curious what happens to the nuclear arsenal in these "let's break up the u.s." scenarios.

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, March 13, 2017

let's ask Putin!

e pluribus unum!

― reggie (qualmsley)

e pluribus duo, more like.

i wonder how many of the 14 million people losing health insurance will vote for republicans in the midterms

I don't see much difference in the comparison to Scotland, other than the age of the country. The same reasons you mentioned for Scotland wanting to leave the UK are the same reasons I think the PNW should leave America. Honestly, the Republican voting poor people in the Red States are part of the problem and if they get fucked by their own voting, then I have no sympathy for them. America was pieced together through different treaties and purchases, at different times. There's no reason to think it should stay as one country. There will be no stopping Trump. Rather than spend 4 years fighting him, let's spend our time extracting ourselves from the sinking ship. Plus, if America breaks into many different countries, who will the terrorists hate then? See, it's infallible.

if American breaks into many different countries, who will benefit?

i wonder how many of the 14 million people losing health insurance will vote for republicans in the midterms

i would wager it will be astoundingly close to the same number of that exact 14 mil that voted for Trump. they will be told that their healthcare woes are Obama/Dems/media/immigrants' fault and they will believe it. also, pure uncut white nationalism is much stronger dope than a weak promise that their material conditions *might* improve.

now, it could bring more ppl who stayed home in 2016 which can only be a good thing.

same reasons I think the PNW should leave America

May I refer you to the last time a part of the USA attempted to secede?

the Dems have a golden opportunity with this for the midterms, they just need to rally and--ugh nevermind who am i kidding.

secession is totally stupid.. its not like we dont receive hundreds of billions of money from the feds. CA is a damn juggernaut but if you remove the feds from the picture we're a little fucked.

I live in a red state and 1/3 of my immediate coworkers (those I sit near or meet with regularly) weren't born here!

I'm guilty of using Sioux City as a demographic proxy for rep Steve King's area, but it's 15% hispanic residents

The problem isn't a cultural divide, it's a forced cultural blindness

otm secession is a dumb fantasy

― marcos

not even kevin baker, who's mostly just giving vent to his darker impulses, is actually advocating literal secession. it's about abandoning the ideal, abandoning "e pluribus unum" for "e pluribus plurum" (i can't actually write latin, hopefully you get my point). which many states are already doing by decriminalizing or legalizing marijuana in violation of federal law. maybe we do more of that, if we can't control educational standards in texas maybe we decouple and diminish the influence education in texas has in oregon. "heighten the contrasts" is always bullshit, just as much as "communism in one country" is, but we can't put our values and principles, america's values in principles, in place in, say, mississippi. what's our choice? we watch those values get picked off through attrition entirely, or we... well... circle the wagons.

but we can't put our values and principles, america's values in principles, in place in, say, mississippi. what's our choice?

crack a history book, we fought a war over this shit

There's no reason to think it should stay as one country.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/American_progress.JPG/300px-American_progress.JPG

crack a history book, we fought a war over this shit

― Οὖτις

should i have put the bit about "not advocating literal secession" in all caps?

i still think our first album, the articles of confederation, was the best one. the constitution was total sellout BS

Why don't we drop this subject? It's one thing to engage in this badinage with these youngsters, but this sort of thing can be so easily misunderstood.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/California-joins-legal-challenge-to-revised-Trump-10998757.php

The worst non-war fallout from any imaginary secession of the PNW from the USA would be having to float a new currency based on the GDP of a small country, one that did not have the benefit of being the world's reserve currency. The pacific nw dollar (aka "the newbie") would have all the strength of the pre-euro Italian lira. If that.

NFL and NBA games would probably turn into bloodbaths, too

yes let's drop this tedious and pointless subject

xp

revisiting the first season of house of cards, it's amazing how naive even frank underwood seems compared to the shit we've seen with the trump putsch

Why don't we drop this subject? It's one thing to engage in this badinage with these youngsters, but this sort of thing can be so easily misunderstood.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

you're probably right. thinking about the long-term prognosis of this country is not going to be helpful or instructive to anybody right now. probably not even possible the way things are now. i keep hoping that this wave of madness will break, the way it has in the past, but the more time passes the less likely it seems.

only reason i have been chiming in here is because my family are taking very specific steps to best ensure our personal long-term survival, but generalizing one's personal experience as a political philosophy has some serious limitations.

imo it's time to build walls around urban centers, and we'll decide which suburbs we allow on our side of the wall

if we can't control educational standards in texas maybe we decouple and diminish the influence education in texas has in oregon

Gunna have to fuck with capitalism on this one. The biggest textbooks makers(I.e. the most popular ones) are restructuring their history books to fit with the ideological demands of the Texas state board of ed some such, b/c TX is the largest single consumer of these these things.

http://cdn.konbini.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/11/files/2016/02/trepalium-decor.jpg

i keep hoping that this wave of madness will break, the way it has in the past, but the more time passes the less likely it seems.

eh, it's only been a year, and the trump white house (gold palace?) seems more poop-smirched every day. i think of it as a tide of madness, not a wave, and it will likely recede without ever breaking.

Meanwhile, there are other dumb explainer takes being shared out there that are almost as much fun

Ohhh, I see now. Spicer: Trump didn't mean wiretapping when he tweeted about wiretapping

Oookay, now I get it. Conway denies suggesting wider surveillance of Trump

I like the implication that Trump is v deliberate with the use of quotes in his tweets

The biggest textbooks makers(I.e. the most popular ones) are restructuring their history books to fit with the ideological demands of the Texas state board of ed some such, b/c TX is the largest single consumer of these these things.

Yeah and as long as Texas requires Texas-specific school books, then they're gonna need a place to put them. Like, um, a Depository of Texan School Books, you could call it.

Now we just need Trump's motorcade to pass by with an open top car.

Ride, Melania, Ride

serious question, is brotherlovesdub larry appleton?

No

Bro's been on the dub threads (duh) for years

"abandoned red states are where a majority of black Americans live"

pretty sure there are more african-americans living in new york, new jersey, d.c., and philadelphia than every southern state combined.

i just made that up. but it sounds true.

I kinda think a separate thread on "The West Balkanizes Itself" speculative slash could have some entertainment value

XP
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_African-American_population

damn, it really wouldn't take you long to meet every black person in montana...

ok my bad, sorry. i normally wouldn't ask in-thread but the search fuction's down.

not sure whether you're being serious, scott, or which red states we're talking about abandoning but FWIW, wiki does provide this helpful table: List of U.S. states by African-American population

NY: 3,073,800
NJ: 1,204,826
DC: 305,074
PA: 1,377,689 (a red state this time around but okay why not)
-------------
= 5,351,241

here's your top twelve african american populations in red states (2016 election):

GA: 3,150,435
FL: 2,999,862
TX: 2,979,598
NC: 2,048,628
LA: 1,506,534
OH: 1,407,681
MI: 1,400,362
PA: 1,377,689
SC: 1,290,684
AL: 1,251,311
MS: 1,074,200
TN: 1,055,689
------------
= 21,542,493

secession thing is like the dumbest idea ever and from now on i'm FPing anybody who puts it forward even half-sincerely as a good idea, a makes u think, or any other such thing. not to be a dick but having to talk about it degrades the conversation here from an adult level to teenage stoners speculating. the popularity of the band 'rush' around here also factors into this and has been duly noted.

xpost

why isn't north carolina a blue state? it should be. virginia is blue though, right?

yeah, i don't really think anyone is seceding. i called that rant "sad" when i linked to it above. i think i called it a sad liberal rant. and like i said i live in massachusetts so i'm cool. though we need more people of color here. hey, alabama, come on up here! you get used to the snow! sorta.

ah sorry, i'm not beefing with you scott, just annoyed at the conversation from earlier in the day.

NC was blue in 08 and otherwise hasn't gone Dem since Carter. not even for clinton! it keeps seeming like it might be appropriate to just call it purple - the margins have changed a LOT since the bush years - and IIRC it was solidly in clinton's column circa september/october. but in the end it wasn't close.

yeah for the record "secession" is ridic and in no way would i support it. but gotta wonder if a Trump WH and v possibly a GOP majority gone wild for 4-8 years might have the left reexamining their stance on "states' rights"

There is no fighting the Trump part of the country. Let them have their racist, tax-free heartland.

― brotherlovesdub, Monday, March 13, 2017 1:40 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

What the fuck was all of this about?

In any case, this person's understanding of "red state" America is an obscene cartoon. Lots of different kinds of people live lots of different kinds of places. Demonizing all of them just plays into the hands of right wing demagogues who tell their audiences that liberal elitists demonize them.

you're talkin like he isn't here