French elections 2017: completing the hat-trick?

and afaict le pen is not an "explicit jew hater" either

― Mordy, Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:26 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Are you serious?!

I do remember you somewhat downplaying her Velodrome d'Hive disaster. That's just one example. I'm not even going to google her hatred towards jews, you will do fine on your own. Damn.

if you can't see why french jews would be concerned about a guy who praised protests that involved attacks on synagogue then one of us is in denial here but it isn't me

In a climate where the far-right are getting votes and feeding off hatred forr immigrants and Muslims. They are the ones getting it in the neck. State of this.

xsp lbi she has real efforts to remove antisemitism from the party and has taken a different line from her father as an intentional move. i think plenty can be said to insinuate that she dislikes jews (including the kind of anti-banker language that melanchon has used) and the party has a history but you need to be rigorous about what she has actually said and done and apply the same standards of other candidates (even if you like their platforms more).

I never thought fuckin BHL would have a way to influence even the jews in Pennsylvania on how to see the french's left, and once again, I'm the first who to dislike Melenchon.

The Mélenchon groupies i know here are active in BDS & the like

i'm pretty sure the actual flesh and blood french jews i know and went to school with have made a bigger impact on my perceptions of melenchon than BHL

Also, some stuff that Le Monde doesn't mention in that article:

- more teachers in 'difficult' neighbourhoods
- opening libraries in the evenings and on Sunday
- more medical services reimbursed by social security (notably glasses and prostheses)
- respecting EU fiscal discipline
- no lifting of sanctions against Russia

if you can't see why french jews would be concerned about a guy who praised protests that involved attacks on synagogue then one of us is in denial here but it isn't me

― Mordy, Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:32 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I said I did. I said jews have no friends in extreme right, or left in most cases. You probably ignored that at your will. But calling Melenchon an anti-semite is really a bridge too far.

But whatever. You don't seem particularly knowledgeable about France and the elections, not in this thread anyway. Stick to defending Le Pen for her "real efforts to remove antisemitism from the party".. Sad (extremely sad!) lol... Not arguing with you anymore.

no one called him an antisemite! that was what my post above literally says - that i don't care about prosecuting what he feels in his heart!

why do u think marine expelled her dad from the party lbi? i mean read her actions as cynical and full of shit but you can't not acknowledge there's something there

“I want to congratulate the youth of my country who mobilized in defense of the miserable victims of war crimes in Gaza,” Melenchon said in the speech at a general assembly of his Left Party. “They did so with model discipline when they were pushed to extremes on all sides. They knew how to remain dignified and embodied better than anyone the founding values of the French republic.”

The problem is one quote off a website (and I don't know it *shakes fist at the internet*) that might read this quote in a particular way...do we have a French Jewish socialist association's take on this :-)

You, Mordy, trying to see who the real enemy is and coming to the conclusion it is Melenchon (who I don't even care for) instead of proven anti-semite Le Pen is just... I have no words.

oy dude, gafb

why do u think marine expelled her dad from the party lbi? i mean read her actions as cynical and full of shit but you can't not acknowledge there's something there

― Mordy, Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:39 PM (forty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Why? Politics.

"gafb"?

"politics" - what politics? specifically the kind that tries to expel more radical elements to make their party more palatable to people? like minimizing explicit antisemitism to try and shed that baggage?

gafb gmafb*

Please stop at this point. Thanks:

i mean read her actions as cynical and full of shit but you can't not acknowledge there's something there

Le Pen is a proven anti-semite. Not just her dad, she herself, too. It's one of the things that vexes between Wilders and Le Pen, too. Wilders has the Israeli flag hanging in his parliamentary room (because anti-muslim), Le Pen is trying to shake her own past and that of her dad for electoral gain. It's not complicated.

gmafb*

Yeah still no idea what this means.

Le Pen is a proven anti-semite.

please give me a link that makes this case please bc i've googled it and find a) the "she will strip jews of their israeli citizenship" (in the context of comments about how she wouldn't allow any dual-citizenship) the vichy stuff and lots of links about her father.

"give me a fucking break"

so, yeah wow what happened here

the vichy stuff isn't enough for you?

Mordy, you clearly know nothing about France, French history, French politics, etc.

distinguishing vichy from true "france" has a long tradition going back to de gaulle and while i don't love it i don't think it's the same as being an explicit anti-semite.

fred stfu

And are we seriously discussing Le Pen's anti-semitic credentials? Are we now denying that dog-whistle politics is a real thing and that it's been wreaking havoc all over the world? And that's not even counting the Vichy stuff.

yeah i mean Trump is not explicitly racist/an antisemite in that case.

Trump is much closer to an explicit bigot imo

'Im not an antisemite.' 'It's not a Muslim ban.' Oh, okay.

If you guys believe what youre saying it should be very easy to link me to some convincing remarks

No, you see, Mordy knows better than all the French why Marine Le Pen cleaned up the FN, and it's definitely not just going more into dog-whistling, because of course Mordy also knows best what types of dog-whistles works in France.

Fred otm. Mordy, you are way, way out of your depth here.

I just do not get you. Le Pen is a proven anti-semite. Am not googling for you, do it yourself. Yes, she kicked daddy out, but why oh why? To try and appeal to a broader audience. Mission succeeded, but this does not mean she is not an anti-semite. She is. It's recorded, it's all over. But bonne chance picking your allies!

Mordy, while I live in Canada and am Canadian, but I'm also French and I'm knowledgable of its politics in a way that you don't seem to be (which is fine, can't be an expert on everything etc). I can assure you that Le Pen is casting the same dark arts of non-explicit racism than Trump, you can trust us on that. You can also ask your friends.

If you guys believe what youre saying it should be very easy to link me to some convincing remarks

― Mordy, Sunday, 23 April 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Like you did?

Love Mordy but he's embarrassingly off here. xyzzz otm

Forcing jews to surrender their Israeli citizenship, what do you call that?

I mentioned it above look at the context

do you know the CRIF?

afaik they're like a jewish federation i don't know anything more about them.

look guys you can keep repeating that it's a subject upon which i am ignorant however all i asserted is that it seems to me like le pen and melenchon have both said v questionable things and that neither rise to the level of out and out explicit antisemite. you have failed to give me evidence that le pen is more so than melenchon only assertions that you truly know and i don't know. fyi this is normally a giveaway that your interlocutor is substituting appeals to authority for actual arguments. lbi as i said i googled the topic and found nothing dispositive. i want to know more. if i'm talking to a french friend and he says "le pen and melenchon both hate jews" i don't think i can respond with "well actually i heard from some random guys on a message board that le pen is much more antisemitic"

it's nagl when someone says "show me how what you're saying is true bc i'm ignorant and don't know" and you think the answer is "no you're ignorant and don't know"

frankly that fred agrees with you all should send up some huge warning signs

She is probably a bigger islamophobe than she is an anti-semite. And that seems to be good enough for some, like this quote from jpost: "“I believe that since Marine Le Pen succeeded her father, it is wrong to consider the National Front as an anti-Semitic party. And it is even more wrong to single out FN as the main foe when real criminal anti-Semitism comes from the Islamists and the ultra-left who back them,”"

http://www.jpost.com/Jerusalem-Report/French-Jewish-dilemma-449489

... nullifying whatever "random guys on message boards" here say. find your own truths, trust your friend, and don't believe us. i don't care. but shame this election thread turned into this because of your twist. needn't be.

xxp

D-O-G-W-H-I-S-T-L-I-N-G

She surrounds herself with notorious antisemites and gestures towards antisemitism in both subtle and not-so-subtle ways, all the while presenting herself as utterly beyond reproach. The Vél d'Hiv statement is a perfectly calculated example of this, as it allows her to snatch some extra votes while claiming opposition to fascism (an utterly foreign, unassimilable phenomenon, obviously). It's alt-right cynicism at its 'best,' and it's working since she fucking made it to the run off. What more do you need?

honestly i'd like to know about some of these notorious antisemites she surrounds herself with. you think i have some kind of agenda but i really just want a fuller picture so i wouldn't mind some names.

OTM. Wish Mordy would get this...

xp Sigh..

lbi you have contributed nothing of substance. if you have nothing please simmer down and let ppl who apparently know something about this topic explain it.

You are plain trolling at his point Mordy. And I do not for the life of me understand why.

like you don't realize how bad it makes you look when you refuse to discuss something in good faith. it doesn't make you look like you know what you're talking about.