French elections 2017: completing the hat-trick?

Ah ok.

I'm sorta with the MAHB piece as a good corrective against too much optimism, until I hit this part: The fifth, “The end of extreme poverty is in sight” might be true, but more likely is “In this century extreme poverty will be the lot of most of humanity, after civilization collapses.”

"It's not the population growth that is the problem - it's the extreme poverty that is the underlying reason," says Hans Rosling, professor of international health at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden. "If you continue to have extreme poverty areas where women give birth to six children and the population doubles in one generation, then you'll have problems."

Euler - that quote is dismissed in that twitter thread. The arg is basically that anyone of us in the West consumes more resources than a family in poorer countries.

I'll look more at that link later. Its not so much that the study might or might not be downright racist, but the way these things are deployed in the political sphere from these studies looking at the impact of population tend to be end up as: Africans/the poor in the West (white or otherwise) must do x, y or z. And its not even about 6 or 7 kids, its now going down to if you want to have 3 kids well tough have 2. Cross this with race, and its another layer of toxicity.

Seem to remember a debate here about Melenchon and anti-semitism... https://blogs.mediapart.fr/egalidad/blog/170717/vel-dhiv-melenchon-daccord-avec-lepen

In sum: Melenchon agrees with Le Pen that the French state is not to blame for rounding up Jews in the Vichy era

So your response to all of this is to point out there is anti-semitism on the left. Cool.

This was thread on Macron's latest:

As a Jew, I really enjoy all these goys telling me I can't experience my identity except as it manifests in 20th c settler-colonialism. https://t.co/3nwrbw3MEu

— Sam Adler-Bell (@SamAdlerBell) July 17, 2017

There's a whole chunk of this thread devoted to arguing that it's anti-semitic to deny French culpability in the Vel d'Hiv roundup. And now the standard-bearer for the left has just gone and done that. If you're happy with that, fine. But it's going to tarnish everything else he says.

Okay, so, Macron was fucking with him, yes?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/us/politics/trump-interview-transcript.html

TRUMP: We had dinner at the Eiffel Tower, and the bottom of the Eiffel Tower looked like they could have never had a bigger celebration ever in the history of the Eiffel Tower. I mean, there were thousands and thousands of people, ’cause they heard we were having dinner.

(crosstalk/garbled)

HABERMAN: You must have been so tired at, by that point.

TRUMP: Yeah. It was beautiful. We toured the museum, we went to Napoleon’s tomb …

(crosstalk)

TRUMP: Well, Napoleon finished a little bit bad. But I asked that. So I asked the president, so what about Napoleon? He said: “No, no, no. What he did was incredible. He designed Paris.” (garbled) The street grid, the way they work, you know, the spokes. He did so many things even beyond. And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death. How many times has Russia been saved by the weather? (garbled)

(crosstalk/unintelligible)

Doesn't seem out of character for philosopher-king Macron to hold that as a sincere opinion.

It is pretty sweet to see Trump travel the world and parrot whatever he's just been told though.

Just, for those who know nothing about France (Hi, xyzzz!): It was Napoleon III who designed Paris. Which I suspect Macron knows, and if Trump has even the slightest clue there were more than one Napoleon, he probably now wonders what Napoleon II designed.

Liberals always love little facts. Who designed this? Where countries are on a map? Chill out a little. You seem rattled by something.

Zelda - fair enough. Link is in French. See where Macron takes the country on certain areas to see who is tarnished on what..

Fred suspects Macron knows as much about French history as Fred does but he can't be sure. Some similarities between Napoleon III and Trump so maybe best if Trump remains in ignorance, his habitual state amiritelol.

lol

Also lol at complaining about French links in the French politics thread. But I guess foreign languages are for liberals #respectableGauche

I wasn't complaining.

Keep laughing Fred. Relax, and accept how dumb you are.

Seem to remember a debate here about Melenchon and anti-semitism... https://blogs.mediapart.fr/egalidad/blog/170717/vel-dhiv-melenchon-daccord-avec-lepen

you remember correctly and i argued specifically that melenchon was likely just as anti-semitic (or not) as le pen. it's hilarious to see that vindicated in such an obvious way.

Sure, that's what you were arguing back then..

ftr i didn't say le pen isn't an anti-semite. i said that dogwhistling was coming le pen AND melenchon.

― Mordy, Tuesday, April 25, 2017 2:18 PM (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if it seemed like i was downplaying le pen's "antisemitism" it was bc i said that they both send dogwhistles (whereas lbi was trying to argue that le pen was somehow more explicitly antisemitic and i was contesting the 'explicitness'). please represent what i was arguing fairly.

― Mordy, Tuesday, April 25, 2017 2:21 PM (two months ago) Bookmark

Agree that the explicit angle - Melenchon being an anti-semite but Le Pen being anti-semeticer - is nonsense, if that's how it came across I retract.

Found something in English on how the remarks are being reported.

http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/1.802131

I don't see anyone coming across well on this..

manu's approval rating cratering. RIP

This is what Macron tweets:

Journée internationale des #droitsdelhomme : les droits universels, l’égalité entre les femmes et les hommes et les libertés fondamentales sont au cœur de mon action. C’est notre combat, chaque jour.

— Emmanuel Macron (@EmmanuelMacron) December 10, 2017

vs. what is actually going on:
http://www.lemonde.fr/immigration-et-diversite/article/2017/12/16/en-france-une-politique-migratoire-d-une-durete-sans-precedent_5230634_1654200.html

Sorry, it's in French AND a paywall. In short: this government has the toughest policies on migrants we've ever seen. Police steal their belongings, sending out more and more people, making NGOs and shelters do police work (sorting people, etc.). All the NGOs and people who are helping the migrants are appalled and furious.

I know Macron has a good reputation internationally, but don't get fooled, his kind of centrism is nothing more than right-wing policies with prettier speeches. Fuck this guy.

For fucks sake. Yes, one racist can be better than another racist. Because racism is an actual thing that causes actual damage, and some people cause more damage than others. It's not just a tag to put on people so guys like xyzzz can feel better about themselves. Fucking stupid purity politics.

― Frederik B, Thursday, 13 July 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, I live in a country where the right-wing populists are in control of immigration policies, and the other day the police straight up killed a man while trying to deport him. You don't know shit about what you speak, xyzzz.

Defeat this guy because he is worse than the left, don't try with the worse than Le Pen bullshit.

Dinsdale, do you live in a quartier with a lot of migrants on the streets?

here we go

~france~

Yes Fred I'll wait until French police kill a man while trying to deport him. My apologies to you.

just noticed we need to achieve safety by April or we are down, we have Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal in our last 4 games. Although by then I imagine Man City will be pissed up and sending out a hologram XI.

oops wrong thread!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-03/these-countries-are-getting-more-miserable-this-year

https://i.imgur.com/Pem0TAo.png

iirc you live in the usa so

yeah - #49 on the list!

Willing to bet on a v different picture if you broke that down by race though.

anyway I ain't gonna argue with Mordy about France, I know it's one of "your things", it's cool, too bad yr missing out

Miserable economies not miserable populations btw.

I have an image of the google street map cars driving through Kazakhstan, using state of the art facial recognition software to count the number of miserable looking people.

This is good on mapping out the French brand of racism, explaining the character of Macron's policies and remarks.

People often ask me to contrast racism and racists in France and the United States.. I prefer to draw connections, but here is one significant difference..

— I Said What I Said (@alwaystheself) December 19, 2017

it certainly chimes with my experience

in other news..... sheesh
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/20/french-race-row-erupts-as-feminist-forced-off-advisory-body

I saw a thread on this from the same person a few days ago:

If you read French, you can learn about recent events here: https://t.co/Wsuf2J58BY

— I Said What I Said (@alwaystheself) December 15, 2017

The racists who've been open with me about it here have all been proles. I've encountered no racism amongst my academic friends / colleagues but we never talk about such things so I wouldn't really know. Though it sounds consistent with what'd I'd expect. The colonial legacy is p much never explored in schools. my daughter's programme in histoire / géo terminale this year is on the USA, where they're discussing for instance the Vietnam war. Yet she's never learned about the French Vietnam War in school here. Nor about Algeria, despite the fact that her classmates have been largely Algerian (non rich immigrants to France end up in the same places).

police tactics against non whites : it's one thing if you're talking about the 6ème or whatever, but up in the 18ème and 19ème the street hassles (drug dealing, bootleg cigarette dealing, fake paper dealing) are chiefly non white affairs. the migrants who flood my streets these days are implicated in all of this because they're illegal and have no access to legitimate work (not that there is much of it to be found for people of their education level in the city), so they're vulnerable to organized crime, which is thus also an element in my environs. as a "good liberal" I'm supposed to look past that and tell the police to go away? I don't get that. I want the cops closing down the bullshit.

ime as an American from the American South I'd say you could substitute "French" for "American Northerner" in that twitter thread and get something equally legit

From that tweet thread:

The second major difference, which is actually linked to first, is that French racists routinely point to U.S. racism to excuse their own racism (something most U.S. racists can't do largely because they don't know anything about the rest of the world).

In other words, most U.S. racists can't point to another internationally-known racist boogeyman, so that's not part of their cultural repertoire. But many French racists try to silence critique of French racism by referencing the U.S.

This is completely true for Dutch racists as well, and I'd be surprised if it doesn't work this way for a lot of European countries.

I very much doubt UK racists do this btw.

We do that thing where we claim we were the first country in the world to abolish slavery (we were not...) to get away from the fact that we were a big slave trade nation. That is kinda like that.

Of course the French revolution abolished slavery (eventually) only for Napoleon to bring ti back.

I think UK does this as well?

(DK outlawed slave trade in 1793, but from 1803, the 10 years were then spent getting enough slaves to the colonies in the Caribbean so that the trade would not be needed any more)

(the real answer is 1848, and only after a slave revolt)

(and yes, I had to google that. and sorry for spamming this thread)

Yes, the UK, of all countries, we're forever slapping ourselves on the back over William Wilberforce.