theresa may: is her project subtly machiavellian or merely cunning, baldrick-style?

https://thebritishdrea.com/

lol

a cunning plan

a stunted flan morelike!

christ this thread was started in september 2016 but the amount of shit that has happened since then would have filled 40 years worth of politics back before we were all condemned to live, unknowingly, in hell forevermore

Even Baldrick had a plan... While Capt Blackadder would dream of being in The Ritz, she dreams of a future in the EU. #PeoplesVoteMarch pic.twitter.com/nXnR22pIYD

— 3littlepigs (@3littlepigs7) October 20, 2018

raffine 36m ago
Corbyn has conceded the opposition role to Sturgeon.

thank,s for coming u tried

quite liked this one

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44389172_1948177958601380_7867744139054415872_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=9d3eb1def9fce1c5e46fb03e58b22caa&oe=5C43DB94

That's about the tone I'd expect

good turnout

are they going to have one of these each time they lose the next referendum ?

i assume that's the plan

I've been ranting a bit on Twitter about the exasperating counter-productiveness of holding this in London but it does look like people came from all over the country and it's the biggest I've seen since the Iraq War. Then again we all know how well that turned out.

alastair campbell is saying "parliament has to pay attention to such a big march!" -- which is obviously not very much impressing those who *did* march again the iraq war

on one hand, this govt is in a far shakier position than blair's was electorally in 2003
on the other hand, this govt has far less room for immediate manoeuvre

FWIW I think protests are valuable even when they don't have a chance of succeeding and this one does.

Difference between any next putative referendum and the last one is that every single anti-Brexit person in the UK will come out and vote, whereas casual leave voters are likely to be more likely to be hit by voting fatigue. But I still think public opinion hasn't shifted enough for a vote to be anything other than an extremely dangerous rubber-stamp.

On balance it might still be preferable to just allowing the unfolding disaster to continue unfolding though.

I agree that a protest can be valuable even if it doesn't 'succeed'. I'm just not really sure what succeeding looks like in this case.

Campbell can be personable enough that I momentarily forget what a dickhead he actually is

at the same time, people are wont to want to kick the people who are forcing them to answer a question (particularly one they feel they've already answered) right in the teeth. wouldn't underestimate the turnout drive of the contrarian bloc

It's what makes that Sturgeon comment particularly irritating though, I suspect she'd be perfectly happy to let Brexit go to shit as it's the thing most likely to turbocharge support for Indyref 2.

never mind a rubber stamp, i really don't see what a 2nd ref with a "Remain" majority similar to the first one's "Leave" majority would achieve

an extremely dangerous rubber-stamp.

if the vote is set up not as "shall we just do it and be legends y/n" but actually offers "a: stay in and be an economic power" vs "b: die in droves as lorries back up across the continent PROJECT FACT here are 1113 pages of legislation to read" would be the crux

i really don't see what a 2nd ref with a "Remain" majority similar to the first one's "Leave" majority would achieve

I mean it might avert a complete disaster, or at least put it off for a few years, but I think enough of the country still doesn't appreciate the size of the approaching iceberg.

Of all the emerging scenarios probably the scariest is what happens in the event of a bad Brexit and who gets scapegoated when a lot of angry Leave voters realise that things haven't improved after all and have in fact got materially worse.

Any referendum operating in the same way as the last one (singular event with a singular outcome) is also seemingly a major security threat re certain MPs if not other individuals involved.

the million melt march doesn't look good from outside London, it just looks like a big Middle England tantrum about something that's already happened. It's almost like the absolute antithesis of The Hardest Hit march of '11,
which featured people who really were hit hard - whilst many of the melts of the Labour Party who were there today abstained in Parliament on important votes that might have saved some of them.

Might have prevented Brexit happening in the first place actually.

Not even I'd go so far as to blame the fuckers but there is much that the Blair/Brown govs could've done to make Brexit far more unachievable and plenty that they did and said to lay the groundwork for it.

Also I know you know this but it hasn't already happened and when it does and it goes wrong the first thing that will happen is another big dose of austerity that will fuck over the hardest hit yet again.

The problem with holding it in London is that you run the risk of appearing to confirm everything negative your opponent says about you. Even if thousands of people travelled from outside London, and when plenty of the most hardcore Brexiters are classic Middle Englanders and economic elites. The truth is always more contradictory and complex.

OTOH if you hold a march outside London no one in the media gives a shit, which is kind of the problem as well.

allons enfants, aux salford quays!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dp_CnFRWkAYejrD.jpg

old 2011 pic here of my kid Alex on The Hardest Hit Demo makes me feel sad, happy, angry.

Is Theresa May’s Brexit plan a stroke of genius? | Letters https://t.co/wcecq79riK

— Guardian politics (@GdnPolitics) November 13, 2018

Never attribute to genius that which is adequately explained by cuntishness

"Polly Toynbee asks why Theresa May triggered article 50 with no plan. In truth, May left it until the very last minute to trigger the two-year process of article 50. She could not allow Brexit to be any later than the end of March 2019 because, from 1 April 2019, the start of the UK’s fiscal year, the EU’s anti-tax-avoidance directive (2016/1164) would apply to British citizens and institutions."

Interesting take I've not heard before.

Makes perfect sense!

I’ve heard that before.

Newsnight getting on my nerves; fucking Maitlis saying Jeremy Corbyn would vote Leave if it went to a second vote. (Narrator: ‘actually, he’s said he’d vote Remain again, many times!’).

https://preview.ibb.co/cUat0L/Screenshot-20181113-205940.png

Last night and Salzburg both confirmed something terrifying about Theresa May: Her public evasiveness doesn’t hide some grand secret strategy that she refuses to divulge. The whole strategy is meaningless platitudes. There is nothing behind the curtain https://t.co/5NQcuaDjxG

— Jon Stone (@joncstone) December 14, 2018

i mean this was known but

so Juncker is suggesting she is quite similar to some kind of amorphous blob type thing.. hmm.

Blobby.

I would be more afraid if there was something behind the curtain. Now I am 100% sure that there will be a new referendum quite soon. The UK is not going to make a fool of itself forever. Though in a way it would be funny...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxa851vAJtI

The UK is not going to make a fool of itself forever.

citation needed

didn't you guys have an empire once?

that was some other guys, they're dead i think

https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aydOe4W_700b.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T72TopWbXJg

Now I am 100% sure that there will be a new referendum quite soon. The UK is not going to make a fool of itself forever.

No chance. Watch this space.

The distance from not-forever to quite-soon is, um, nebulous.

No chance for the former. Watch this space for the latter. In case of confusion.

I think there will be a second referendum because London and the City of London are unhappy and London is, ultimately, the only thing that the entire conservative party cares about.

I'm not sure if that's true of a big slice of the grassroots? Feels like the source of the tension between the soi-disant gentry membership and most of the MPs

You are right, I exaggerated out of anger. Still pretty sure that will be the deciding factor, ultimately,