i saw them in philly after this came out and BB was gone and it was kinda...sad. i was hoping for the new age of bowie and it was a little embarrassing. but maybe it was just a really bad show.
― scott seward, Friday, 20 October 2017 13:39 (six years ago) link
I'm not sure it's Suede that wasn't healthy for him since he'd been in the band since the beginning and apparently, everything was OK, particularly with BA.
Oh come on, it's fairly well known that this wasn't the case!
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Friday, 20 October 2017 13:40 (six years ago) link
Hum. I'm not sure BB wanted to produce himself (for the simple reason that he didn't how to do it at that time !) but he definitely wanted more input in the production decisions.From what I understand of the situation then, the crisis was more personal than artistic (BA was in full drugs habits and partying, BB was depressed/had just lost his father, there was a huge communication breakdown within the band...).
― AlXTC from Paris, Friday, 20 October 2017 13:43 (six years ago) link
xpost what ? that BA and BB get on well for a while, before success ?
― AlXTC from Paris, Friday, 20 October 2017 13:44 (six years ago) link
eheh, I was at the FIRST gig R.Oakes ever played with Suede !It wasn't a proper gig but a radio session in Paris. I even remember it was BA's birthday !I hated Oakes so much... (it was pure jealousy !)
― AlXTC from Paris, Friday, 20 October 2017 13:46 (six years ago) link
No, it's very well known that Anderson and Butler weren't getting on, and neither were Butler and Gilbert, for that matter. It's also fairly well known that Butler wanted to self-produce Dog Man Star... I mean, this is all in Love and Poison!
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Friday, 20 October 2017 13:48 (six years ago) link
Nah, BA and BB were very close for a while, until the band went successful.And as for Gilbert, the tensions started during the DMS sessions, iirc.and as for BB wanting to self produce the album, I really doubt it (and I don't think I have ever heard or read it from them).
― AlXTC from Paris, Friday, 20 October 2017 13:51 (six years ago) link
Well, read Love and Poison again, then (if you ever have)
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Friday, 20 October 2017 13:53 (six years ago) link
OK maybe. He clearly wanted more input in the production work anyway, whether it was doing it all by himself or have some things done his way.But the production issues were only one part of the crisis.In interviews, BB and BA have admitted, later, it was mainly a problem of (mis)communication and personal issues.
― AlXTC from Paris, Friday, 20 October 2017 14:01 (six years ago) link
BB also had huge issues with BA's lyrics, iirc.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 20 October 2017 14:24 (six years ago) link
I think it was mainly with "We are the pigs" !
― AlXTC from Paris, Friday, 20 October 2017 14:35 (six years ago) link
Or "Stay Together?"
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 20 October 2017 15:03 (six years ago) link
Following the death of Bernard Butler's father, relations within Suede started to deteriorate. Butler kept to himself on the following tour of the US, while the other band members "indulged in probably the worst excesses of their career". Butler travelled to concerts by himself or on The Cranberries tour bus, rather than travel with his bandmates. This influence became prevalent as Butler later stated, "Whatever I did on Stay Together was the A to Z of the emotions I was experiencing... defiance, loss, a final sigh."What was intended as a couple of days' recording stretched out to two weeks. It was later revealed that the song had almost 50 tracks of recorded material on it. According to an entry in Simon Gilbert's diary in the biography Love and Poison, Butler objected to the lyrics in "Stay Together". The entry read: "Lyrics not to be printed on cover of single in case his mother reads it. '16 tears', obviously paedophilic!". The lyrics for "The Living Dead" were also criticised by Butler, at the time he said: "I've written this really beautiful piece of music and it's a squalid song about junkies".It is known that throughout the decade after its release, the band have largely disowned the song, perhaps because it reminded them of the problems within the band at the time. On the single Anderson says, "I don't think the fuss about Stay Together was justified, I think that was just hype," He shrugs. "I just find it a bit bombastic. I don't think the lyrics are that good either. It's okay, you know, it's okay. I think the b-sides are much better". However publicist Phill Savage suggests that Anderson "can't believe he wrote it about that girl, Anick" (Brett's girlfriend at the time), which is why he has no feelings for it. Anderson has described "Stay Together" as one of the few points in the band's career where hype dictated its success
What was intended as a couple of days' recording stretched out to two weeks. It was later revealed that the song had almost 50 tracks of recorded material on it. According to an entry in Simon Gilbert's diary in the biography Love and Poison, Butler objected to the lyrics in "Stay Together". The entry read: "Lyrics not to be printed on cover of single in case his mother reads it. '16 tears', obviously paedophilic!". The lyrics for "The Living Dead" were also criticised by Butler, at the time he said: "I've written this really beautiful piece of music and it's a squalid song about junkies".
It is known that throughout the decade after its release, the band have largely disowned the song, perhaps because it reminded them of the problems within the band at the time. On the single Anderson says, "I don't think the fuss about Stay Together was justified, I think that was just hype," He shrugs. "I just find it a bit bombastic. I don't think the lyrics are that good either. It's okay, you know, it's okay. I think the b-sides are much better". However publicist Phill Savage suggests that Anderson "can't believe he wrote it about that girl, Anick" (Brett's girlfriend at the time), which is why he has no feelings for it. Anderson has described "Stay Together" as one of the few points in the band's career where hype dictated its success
Things were so bad he was riding with the Cranberries! I can't imagine.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 20 October 2017 15:06 (six years ago) link
iirc it was BA who had issues with "Stay Together", wasn't it ? That said his lyrics and performance ARE terrible on that song !
― AlXTC from Paris, Friday, 20 October 2017 15:11 (six years ago) link
Ahah
― AlXTC from Paris, Friday, 20 October 2017 15:13 (six years ago) link
I disagree, I think 'Stay Together' is a great song. Both Anderson and Butler had problems with it for different reasons.
Butler also had a problem with 'Killing of a Flashboy' and he's wrong there too.
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Friday, 20 October 2017 15:15 (six years ago) link
stay together rules so hard.
― scott seward, Friday, 20 October 2017 15:29 (six years ago) link
actually this is still my idea of what a band/artist should do instead of waiting like 4 years between 2 albums like bands do nowadays...King Gizzard And The Lizard Wizard have released six albums in the last 2.5 years and toured all of them
― shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Friday, 20 October 2017 15:36 (six years ago) link
What was his issue with "flash boy" ?
― AlXTC from Paris, Friday, 20 October 2017 17:57 (six years ago) link
"it's a squalid song about junkies"
it's Suede tho
― phenibut rock (rip van wanko), Friday, 20 October 2017 18:06 (six years ago) link
re:Stay Together, I'm not sure I'd ever heard it before yesterday when I saw it so highly praised, it didn't make a great initial impression but it's growing on me.
I have a weird relationship w Suede since I've listened the first 4 albums to pieces but never really dug into b-sides/non-album singles. I know esp the b-sides are highly acclaimed but I ever got into them, I used to own Sci-Fi Lullabies but for some reason I never put it on.
Like there was a window of opportunity in which Suede's music was able to make a big and lasting impression on me, but then after that I became less open to "new" Suede sounds.
― niels, Friday, 20 October 2017 18:17 (six years ago) link
It's strange you should say that - if I had to take just one of their albums to the desert island with me, it'd be the first disc of Sci-Fi Lullabies!
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Friday, 20 October 2017 18:33 (six years ago) link
Maybe I'll get into it someday, I try every once in a while. Listening to the first track now, it certainly sounds good.
― niels, Friday, 20 October 2017 18:39 (six years ago) link
Yeah, disc 1 of scifi is their best album with the s/t. Simply wonderful.
― AlXTC from Paris, Friday, 20 October 2017 19:48 (six years ago) link
yep
― imago, Friday, 20 October 2017 19:49 (six years ago) link