09 playoffs thread

haa all u hav to do is GET SUPERMANS MORE SHOTS

I guess the last I really watched of D Wade was the finals a few years back when he won the Championship with shaq. East Coast games are impossible for me to catch out here. Hopefully, he'll be healthy and I'll get more of a chance to see him next playoffs.

Carmello...the pride of Baltimore....

I gotta say, he has really big upside - he's smooth, can get his own shot, can shoot from anywhere, and is starting to show some talent at defense. In a few years, maybe he's at Kobe's level - he's certainly got the potential and the physical gifts to get there. I just don't think he's there yet.

looking forward to this nuggets/magic finals

From a basketball standpoint, this would be GREAT. It would also mean that the Celtics lost, which is always good in my book.

From an LA fan standpoint, I would be disappointed.

lebron vs kobe
lebron vs carmelo

would be great

if you rate howard above kobe you're a cumguzzling rapemonkey

I'm just enjoying that, right now, there are at least three teams that could legitimately win the whole thing, and probably a fourth if you consider the Magic having a shooter's chance.

The C's are old and injured, and have no way of handling LeBron (does anyone?).

The Nuggets are really good, and will be even better next year - getting Chauncey is even better than the Lakers getting Gasol a few years back.

And you have to factor in the Lakers.

Its been a great three months straight of basketball this year - good conference tourneys -> Good NCAA tournament -> good NBA playoffs.

magic had the best D in the league w/a bunch of below average defenders and howard - dude is beastly - deal

btw kobe is not as good as he used to be - something to consider

celtics - no shot
magic - no shot
lakers - no shot
nuggets - no shot
cavs - in the bag

btw just found out oj mayos little brother is named "todd mayo" most hilariousest name

ayo ladies im "todd mayo" whats up want 2 party

June, 2008: Mayo is a talented guard with a versatile skill set and a high upside. He handles and passes the ball well enough to play both guard positions. He has good size for the point guard position, and excellent athleticism. He can attack the defense with the dribble (especially in the open floor), challenge shot-blockers, and finish above the rim. He is an excellent medium range shooter who elevates to get his shot off and has a very soft touch. But he can also make shots from behind the three-point line when his feet are set. Defensively, he is very active and very efficient in full court run and jump situations because he can cover large portions of the court very quickly. Overall, he is a very talented young prospect. He has a funny name.

btw kobe is not as good as he used to be - something to consider

what do you base this on?

ayo as far as i'm concerned wade and kobe are 2-3 before paul, howard, or any other jokers until further notice.

well his stats are down from his peak of 05-07 but i base this mostly observation - hes just not as quick or explosive as he used to be - this imo has really hurt his D - hes not the lock down guy he used to be - prob this has something to do w/his stamina decreasing with age/miles - it takes crazy effort to do so much on both ends - hes also to a lesser extent more containable on offense - if hes not hitting those tough long jumpers its possible w/the right personnel to pretty much shut him out of the lane - see lee last years finals for evidence - he used to be able to assert himself on a game pretty completely - now hes more abt getting his within the flow - where as lebron/wade/cp3 can still just rape the hell out of an opposing team nightly

paul has been so much better than kobe for the last two years its not even funny fuck u if u wont understand

His rape stats are drastically down as well.

Dude. He dropped 40 on the Rockets in a playoff game. And the reason his stats are down is because he doesn't HAVE to do everything anymore.

Even, assuming arguendo, that you're right, and he has declined a bit - which isn't a far-fetched idea at all, given that he's been in the league since he was 12 - he's still in the top 3 over all, and on any given night is the best in the league.

As for getting his within the flow, I agree - but I think its on purpose that he waits for the whole team to come with him. He can't do it himself - nobody, not even Jordan, could.

His rape stats are drastically down as well.

Alright, alright. I'm not defending the man's character. Never would.

"on any given night CAN BE the best in the league" is what I meant.

anyone can drop 40 on a given night - i still content that kobels is not capable of imposing himself on a game like he was in 05-06 and hes v lucky that hes on a better team than he was then cause if he was forced to bare a wade/lebron/cp3 type load every night his age would be showing much more than it is now

i guess this is about whether i am winning one game (or playoff series) or building a team for the next five years. i think there are different answers to those questions.

I think you’re selling this kobes short here. he has a lot of miles and all that but he’s also well known as one of the most dedicated guys in the gym and offseason. He’s what 31? And I think he will play at a pretty high level for a few more years.

hes v lucky that hes on a better team than he was then cause if he was forced to bare a wade/lebron/cp3 type load every night his age would be showing much more than it is now

That's probably true, but does that mean he's not as good as he was in 05-06? His FG% is better, his 3PFG% is bette, and he's averaging fewer turnovers per game. Also, and I think this is really important, he took less shots (400 less) than 05-06. He's a more mature player who isn't able jump as high as he could when he was 18, but his production hasn't slackened all that much.

I predict, however, that if LeBron continues to play the run as fast as I can, jump over everyone all the time, and dunk with my head above the rim every time I get the chance, he will deteriorate physically much quicker than Kobe has.

i guess this is about whether i am winning one game (or playoff series) or building a team for the next five years. i think there are different answers to those questions.

Totally. If this were the criteria, I'd take LeBron in a heartbeat over Kobe. But I would probably take Howard over either of them.

I predict, however, that if LeBron continues to play the run as fast as I can, jump over everyone all the time, and dunk with my head above the rim every time I get the chance, he will deteriorate physically much quicker than Kobe has.

Actually, if LeBron were to run as fast as I can, and dunk with his head above the rim every chance I get, he'll never win another GAME, much less an MVP.

I am slow and cannot jump.

per:

05/06 28.11
08/09 24.46

consider per w/the fact that his defense is down and i think its pretty clear that hes declined - his fg % is really the only thing u can look at thats not worse than it used to be - his turnovers are actually up if u look at them as a % of possessions used

the big advantage lebron has over kobe as far as longevity is hes much larger and more physical - that doesnt go away - on the other hand kobe shoots better than lebron and shooting ages well - regardless every player experiences a decline in athleticism around their 30th birthday - some compensate better than others but it hurts them all

Anal rape is the fountain of youth!

more to the point kobe has been playing since he was 18--he's already logged like 1100 nba games and that is a bigger issue than whether he's 30 or not.

Team Stats:

05-06
LAL 99.4 ppg
Opp 96.9 ppg

08-09
LAL 104.9 ppg
Opp 95.6 ppg

I think this shows they're a better TEAM now than they were. Therefore, the best player on the team doesn't have to do as much.

Yeah, he's older, and probably a little less explosive/fast/able to leap white centers in a single bound, but he's still REALLY good, and I would say better than LeBron...for now.

LeBron, obviously, has more upside at this point.

Anal rape is the fountain of youth!

Fountain of something...

btw the readable simmons and gladwell solve the problem of how to press in the pros when good point guards will kill u if u try - use it against the opposing teams bench http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090513/part2 - i think theyve hit upon something pretty brilliant that could work seriously

on the simmons tip, his podcast with jeff "the better van gundy brother" van gundy is excellent. lots of old-school nba chatter and a discussion of how badly the refs have been handling physical play in the playoffs this year.

icey is underrating kobe but if lebron was on the lakers this year they would've lost 5 games

las def a better team but yr argument abt kobe not having to do as much falls flat in the situations where he does have to do as much - see last years finals and various assorted other games over the last two years - and yr completely killing yr credibility insisting that hes better than lebron - lebron seriously just had one of the great regular seasons anyone has ever had in the nba and hes raised his game by a lot in the playoffs - guy is just astronomical right now

Totally true - I'm hot and cold on Simmons lately, but that was a great back and forth about the full court press.

And I think they didn't even touch upon a HUGE aspect - if they're pressing more, I think its safe to assume that there would be more turnovers by the opposing team. This would lead to more of a transition game, and your BIGS are running more, thus becoming more tired.

Its not like it isn't exciting when a team goes into a full-court press - more so, I'd say. And its not like there isn't a wealth of benchers who would be perfect for 15-20 minutes a night at full sprint speed.

A really interesting article - and I think they get to the bottom line pretty well: Pros ain't going to give you full-court pressure effort all the time.

las def a better team but yr argument abt kobe not having to do as much falls flat in the situations where he does have to do as much - see last years finals and various assorted other games over the last two years - and yr completely killing yr credibility insisting that hes better than lebron - lebron seriously just had one of the great regular seasons anyone has ever had in the nba and hes raised his game by a lot in the playoffs - guy is just astronomical right now

LeBron had a beastly year - no doubt. But his TEAM won one more game than the Lakers, and the Lakers are a better team. Therefore, LeBron HAD to do more than Kobe. Thus, I would argue that individual stats are worth less than you make them out to be in this argument.

I also don't buy the LeBron in the playoffs argument - who has he played? The Piss-tons? The Hawks? Call me when his production continues in a similar manner against the Magic.

Right now, I'm taking Kobe. Next year, three years from now, probably LeBron.

We really can only hope that they both make the finals. Otherwise, this argument will continue for a while.

all i'm gonna say is that if you need this year's playoffs to help you decide there's no point in talking abt it until they're over

all i'm gonna say is that if you need this year's playoffs to help you decide there's no point in talking abt it until they're over

Sure there is! Distraction from the monotony of my daily life! Making myself feel like I ACTUALLY know what I'm talking about! Practicing switching windows quickly when my boss comes into the room!

lol fair enough

LeBron had a beastly year - no doubt. But his TEAM won one more game than the Lakers, and the Lakers are a better team. Therefore, LeBron HAD to do more than Kobe. Thus, I would argue that individual stats are worth less than you make them out to be in this argument.

― Two Will Get You Three (B.L.A.M.), Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:45 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is a tautology wrapped up in contradiction - it makes so little sense i really have no idea where to begin - lol

Well, try. The condescending, dismissing out-of-hand argument is REALLY stupid, regardless of how stupid my argument seems to you.

1. The Lakers are a better team than the Cavs.
2. The Lakers won one less game than the Cavs.
3. This difference is not large.
4. LeBron is expected to do more on the Cavs than Kobe is on the Lakers - this situation is similar to the '05-'06 season that you point to as Kobe's peak year. Therefore, the situations are different, and different things are expected of each player.
6. Thus, the use of individual statistics as a yard stick for their respective qualities as a player may not be the truest measure.

Now, where's the tautology? Where's the contradiction?

your argument makes sense in theory i guess (?) but im pretty sure the general consensus is that if lebron was on the lakers they would lose nothing (if not improve by a few games) and if kobe was on the cavs they would've lost 5-7 more games

and look, kobe can still score with lebron no doubt, but it's not like the lakers having better players means that kobe doesn't have to rebound or pass like lebron has to — if kobe could average 30/8/8 like lebron he would

if kobe could average 30/8/8 like lebron he would

I don't know if I buy this, though.

How about this: Was Michael Jordan better when he scored 63 points in a playoff game, when he averaged 37 ppg, or when his team won 72 games in a season, en route to a championship?

I would argue that he was at his best when his team was winning.

Shit, Karl Malone had ridiculous numbers for his entire career, but I don't think anyone would put him up over Tim Duncan as the best power forward to play the game.

your argument makes sense in theory i guess (?) but im pretty sure the general consensus is that if lebron was on the lakers they would lose nothing (if not improve by a few games) and if kobe was on the cavs they would've lost 5-7 more games

This is like arguing that if I took a Ferrari engine and put it into a BMW, the BMW would be better than it was with its own BMW engine. Its not necessarily true - the Lakers have pretty much been designed around Kobe, and likewise with the Cavs around LeBron. I don't think they're interchangeable parts.

1. The Lakers are a better team than the Cavs.
2. The Lakers won one less game than the Cavs.

these points constitute a contradiction - if u look at the teams scoring margins it becomes even more clear that the cavs are the better team - if youre talking abt the teams w/o their respective stars then fine - but then if kobe is better than lebron why doesnt he do as much and make his team overall better than the cavs - is someone really asking him to do less than lebron - for what purpose so as to not have home court advantage in the finals - it just makes no sense

kobes is better than lebron > but his individual stats are worse than lebrons > therefor individual stats must not matter > because kobe is better than lebron = tautology

so you DID know where to start

How about this: Was Michael Jordan better when he scored 63 points in a playoff game, when he averaged 37 ppg, or when his team won 72 games in a season, en route to a championship?

― Two Will Get You Three (B.L.A.M.), Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:18 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

u know yr stretching when youre ignoring all other stats except scoring, the presence of teammates and the fact that youre comparing the 63 point game to nothing

no seriously i had to figure out where to start xp

arguing that kobe is better overall than lebron is just nuts. if you believe for a second that kobe wouldn't get the hugest boner at the chance to lead the lakers this season in total points, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals like lebron did this year for the cavs you're crazy. he's just not able to and it's not because the lakers have better rebounders or better passers (they arguably don't)

1. The Lakers are a better team than the Cavs.
a. The Lakers, as individuals, are a more talented group of individuals.
b. The Lakers won one less game than the Cavs, while playing in a significantly better conference.

As a better team, both as individuals and as a group, the Lakers rely less on their best player than the Cavs do. Therefore, Kobe doesn't need to, and I would argue SHOULDN'T score/rebound/steal as much as he could - as an INDIVIDUA - for the betterment of the team.

kobes is better than lebron > but his individual stats are worse than lebrons > therefor individual stats must not matter > because kobe is better than lebron

This isn't what I said.

one could argue that if strength of sched is taken into account, kobe's team had a better year than lebron's.