get angry about slavery and colonial wars, deej. not about Homer, Horace and Virgil.
i lol'd mightily at this last night
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Thursday, 30 November 2017 16:42 (six years ago) link
how about "defend the indefensible: tao lin"
― flappy bird, Friday, 1 December 2017 18:32 (six years ago) link
I oppose the Stalinist/Pitchforkian tendency on this board to go back and change thread titles.
― New Jersey (treeship 2), Sunday, 3 December 2017 17:33 (six years ago) link
I don’t care about the thread title actually changing but I agree that a more interesting conversation would probably come from that prompt
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, 3 December 2017 19:52 (six years ago) link
But the fact that it had the former & not latter title says a lot !
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, 3 December 2017 19:53 (six years ago) link
https://mic.com/articles/186533/the-art-vs-artist-debate-should-end-with-2017?curator=MediaREDEF#.gFGKqFF1u
despite the fact that this essay doesn't really say anything, i find myself mostly agreeing with it
― k3vin k., Monday, 4 December 2017 19:16 (six years ago) link
I oppose the Stalinist/Pitchforkian tendency on this board to go back and change thread titles.― New Jersey (treeship 2), Sunday, December 3, 2017 12:33 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― New Jersey (treeship 2), Sunday, December 3, 2017 12:33 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah i'm not sure how i feel about it, i finally remembered which thread title was changed recently: "Crystal Castles (rule)" or something. I don't have any investment in CC but understand why some people would want to change that thread title. i mean, thread titles don't get changed very often afaik. with this thread, i actually think a defend the indefensible is more fitting and would've been in 2013.
I don’t care about the thread title actually changing but I agree that a more interesting conversation would probably come from that prompt― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, December 3, 2017 2:52 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, December 3, 2017 2:52 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
agreed
But the fact that it had the former & not latter title says a lot !― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, December 3, 2017 2:53 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, December 3, 2017 2:53 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Not sure what you mean. Again this was 4 years ago, I was psyched on Taipei, not much thought went into the thread title, not a fraction of the angst over it itt atm
― flappy bird, Monday, 4 December 2017 19:23 (six years ago) link
Thought experiment: If it is agreed that henceforth works of art shall be judged and valued according to how we judge and value the artist who made them, how are we going to know what to think about anonymous art, or art created by people like Shakespeare, whose name we know, but about whose life we know only a few unrevealing fragments and who is regularly argued not to have written the works to which his name is attached?
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 4 December 2017 20:16 (six years ago) link
of all the things in this world to give a flying fuck about
― Simon H., Monday, 4 December 2017 20:49 (six years ago) link
we have always been at war with simon h-er
― mark s, Monday, 4 December 2017 20:51 (six years ago) link
Good lord of all the line readings to take seriously ffs
― moyesery loves kompany (darraghmac), Monday, 4 December 2017 20:55 (six years ago) link
lot of literal fucks being given/expressed over a throwaway treezy comment, just saying
anyway changing the title seems pointless, pretty sure people understand that the thread is about tao lin, which includes his work, personal life, dumb beliefs, etc
― k3vin k., Monday, 4 December 2017 20:58 (six years ago) link
rate the following ideologies: stalinism, pitchforkism
― Mordy, Monday, 4 December 2017 21:04 (six years ago) link
order as in post imo
― mark s, Monday, 4 December 2017 21:07 (six years ago) link
anyway. lol:
I've lost ~500 followers since tweeting my vaccine-info email to my brother— Tao Lin (@tao_lin) December 2, 2017
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 02:40 (six years ago) link
haha
― .oO (silby), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 03:30 (six years ago) link
When I need medical advice, I always get it from my local hipster novelist
― Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 03:34 (six years ago) link
Losing 500 followers is nothing like the sting of getting dropped from Vintage, just you wait kid.
― fields of salmon, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 14:37 (six years ago) link
He posted a pic of the galley for Trip on his IG. Review copies go out 1/1.
― Yelploaf, Sunday, 17 December 2017 17:23 (six years ago) link
I’m surprised it was only 500.
― Allen (etaeoe), Sunday, 17 December 2017 18:12 (six years ago) link
scientific accuracy not his forte
― j., Sunday, 17 December 2017 18:13 (six years ago) link
i liked the working title Beyond Existentialism, Trip is bleeghh
― flappy bird, Monday, 18 December 2017 18:58 (six years ago) link
I wonder if vintage would send me a galley for old time’s sake because I reviewed Taipei for a journal that has since shut down.
― treeship 2, Tuesday, 19 December 2017 01:27 (six years ago) link
To the right audience, I feel I could do 9/11-related stand-up comedy— Tao Lin (@tao_lin) January 6, 2018
lmao
― flappy bird, Saturday, 6 January 2018 08:14 (six years ago) link
He isn’t good and his time is over
― circa1916, Saturday, 6 January 2018 08:38 (six years ago) link
Taipei had like three interesting paragraphs though
― circa1916, Saturday, 6 January 2018 08:41 (six years ago) link
nah im psyched for these next 2 books
― flappy bird, Saturday, 6 January 2018 22:23 (six years ago) link
the "mystical turn" he seems to have made is interesting but also super troubling
― treeship 2, Saturday, 6 January 2018 22:28 (six years ago) link
Go on
― flappy bird, Saturday, 6 January 2018 22:28 (six years ago) link
Lin’s turn toward psychedelia, mysticism, and conspiracy theories is obviously a performance, but I think it’s also “real.” He’s living out a false solution for the philosophical and spiritual dead end he conjured in Taipei. Like, the “self” in that book was a prison. Now he’s decided that it was this way for social and political reasons, I guess. The original title of his upcoming book was “Leave Society.” It’s all kind of predictable — he turns from existentialism to the most narcissistic form of politics, an obsession with liberating himself from his own so-called false consciousness, and doing so in part by obsessively regulating his own body, purging himself of “toxins.” If this helps him to stay alive then I guess it is good but it seems like it will be shallow fodder for a novel.I still think Taipei is an extraordinary book—an uncompromising document of our cultural moment. But everyone who’s mentioned that this is a bad person we are talking about is righ. I feel very weird recommending Taipei to people nowadays even though it’s an important book to me.― treeship 2, Sunday, November 26, 2017 8:35 PM (one month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I still think Taipei is an extraordinary book—an uncompromising document of our cultural moment. But everyone who’s mentioned that this is a bad person we are talking about is righ. I feel very weird recommending Taipei to people nowadays even though it’s an important book to me.
― treeship 2, Sunday, November 26, 2017 8:35 PM (one month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― treeship 2, Saturday, 6 January 2018 22:41 (six years ago) link
damn treeship there is some complicated algebra in that post. eating healthy & quitting hard/prescription drugs is the most narcissistic form of politics? "so-called false consciousness"... that's what Taipei was all about. a complete alienation and disconnection from one's body and environment. shallow fodder? we have no idea what Leave Society will be about.
― flappy bird, Saturday, 6 January 2018 22:44 (six years ago) link
tl;dr, the malaise depicted in taipei was something that was socially relevant. it was about living a life without expectations, adrift from the social norms that used to give at least a gloss of meaning to experience (his parents were on a different continent, he was only a "writer" by default, seeming to have no serious passion for his creative work, etc.) i think the "solution" he is trying to move toward -- you know, 'rejecting society,' freeing one's mind with psychedelics -- is false and dangerous. despair curdling into paranoia.
― treeship 2, Saturday, 6 January 2018 22:48 (six years ago) link
i mean, i am going to read the book, but i don't think terrence mckenna has the answers, and i think his eagerness to spread stuff like 9/11 conspiracy theories, anti-vaccine stuff, is evidence of a mind that is just kind of railing against the world in all directions.
as an artist, he isn't required to propose a "way out" of the "dead end" of his novel, but he is kind of trying to do that, and in a way that doesn't seem super hopeful.
― treeship 2, Saturday, 6 January 2018 22:51 (six years ago) link
I don't know about that... he's just living & eating in a more healthy way. Whether it's as socially relevant is immaterial to me. I'd rather him stay alive and maybe write more mediocre work than keep burrowing into pills and hard drugs and becoming Bret Easton Ellis. I don't know how you can find what he's doing "dangerous" or especially "false" - what's your opinion of Terrence McKenna? I don't think he has all the answers either but he wasn't a charlatan. Tao seems happier now, and not really "pushy" w/r/t/ how other people should be.
― flappy bird, Saturday, 6 January 2018 22:52 (six years ago) link
what he is doing isn't actually dangerous. but i don't think organic foods and psychedelics are enough to break through the knot of meaninglessness that has always been his subject. i think that would require some sort of ethical orientation toward the world based on responsibility (what "existentialism" said, which his original title said he moved "beyond"), not the liberation of consciousness through drugs.
― treeship 2, Saturday, 6 January 2018 22:59 (six years ago) link
i don't have answers either i just am skeptical of new age "free your mind" stuff, especially when it has to do with conspiracies
― treeship 2, Saturday, 6 January 2018 23:02 (six years ago) link
I would argue against spreading anti-vax beliefs and other pseudoscience is in fact dangerous
― k3vin k., Saturday, 6 January 2018 23:05 (six years ago) link
xp also i don't want him to keep doing drugs for the sake of "authenticity." i, boringly, hate all drugs.
― treeship 2, Saturday, 6 January 2018 23:06 (six years ago) link
err: argue against....being not dangerous
― k3vin k., Saturday, 6 January 2018 23:06 (six years ago) link
no, you're right. i think 9/11 conspiracy stuff is "dangerous" too in the vague sense that it's putting more nonsense and confusion into the public sphere. but i don't think tao lin has a following -- he's becoming like one of these new age contrarians.
― treeship 2, Saturday, 6 January 2018 23:09 (six years ago) link
anti-vax stuff is easily one of the most dangerous conspiracy theories in existence. 9/11 nonsense is comparatively harmless unless you're stuck talking to one of those ppl at a party or something.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Sunday, 7 January 2018 00:51 (six years ago) link
i don't think it does much good for the civic health of society tho
― treeship 2, Sunday, 7 January 2018 00:52 (six years ago) link
that's true, but but i sort of see it as coming from a different place than anti-vax conspiracies. tbh i've always felt it was kind of an inevitable response to bush and cheney's mendacious use of their own 9/11 conspiracy theory (that saddam was involved) to start a war. it's misguided but i don't really hear truther talk much anymore, except on twitter (where you can find p much every kind of talk going on at all times).
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Sunday, 7 January 2018 01:08 (six years ago) link
I disagree about 9/11 conspiracy theories. 1) it's a form of coping, people trying to 'figure out' something beyond comprehension, and 2) im not a truther but do you believe 100% of the official story? finding mohammad atta's passport on the **street**!! but not the plane's black box?? one example... mostly harmless, unlike anti-vax or pizzagate. to say 9/11 discussion is bad for civic health of society is completely wrong imo, and scares me. it's a valid topic of discussion. why that and not JFK? or pick yr poison...
― flappy bird, Sunday, 7 January 2018 01:23 (six years ago) link
jfk and 9/11 conspiracy theories are both significant drains on the US GDP imo
smart people could be doing much better things with their time, like inventing whatever the pretzel version of the epi-baguette is
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 7 January 2018 01:29 (six years ago) link
Insane hyperbole, I mean come on... Xbox is a drain on the GDP.
― flappy bird, Sunday, 7 January 2018 01:31 (six years ago) link
i don't like that argument. i support unprofitable activities if they are personally enriching.
― treeship 2, Sunday, 7 January 2018 01:36 (six years ago) link
right. like 9/11 speculation
― flappy bird, Sunday, 7 January 2018 01:37 (six years ago) link
flappy i really just mean the "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" crowd, or the ppl who think that the towers were vaporized from space or something. i think there are most likely legitimate issues w/ the 9/11 commission report (the example you note does sound strange to me, and i've read accounts of cheney's actions that day that seem weird) but the noise of the truthers has sort of made it difficult to look at w/o looking like an idiot, which has probably discouraged serious ppl from paying attention. which is a problem!
jfk is a different story tho, fuck the warren commission and everything else allen dulles ever got his evil mitts on.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Sunday, 7 January 2018 01:55 (six years ago) link
Right, also we're getting to the point where kids born after 9/11 are making jet fuel can't melt steel beams jokes & arguments. I have friends that were just barely too young to have any memory of the day, which is insane to me. So the silliness of the meme blots out serious consideration. Noise of the truthers is not hard to block out, although I agree bringing it up in casual conversation is fucking stupid. it's weird, JFK hasn't been memed in the same way, that's the only conspiracy theory that's acceptable to believe in the mainstream in America.
― flappy bird, Sunday, 7 January 2018 03:25 (six years ago) link