Also: the book Teenage that he's working on is supposedly about youth culture from the turn of the century? Haven't really heard a lot about it.
Surely this could be better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Savage
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 19 January 2006 17:07 (eighteen years ago) link
Hey, apparently that Haçienda Must Be Built book even has a Fac number!
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 19 January 2006 20:32 (eighteen years ago) link
Vague back issues, and the anthology The Great British Mistake: Vague 1977-92 (Savage interview included), are available from AK Press, it looks like.
― xero (xero), Friday, 20 January 2006 02:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― xero (xero), Friday, 20 January 2006 02:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 20 January 2006 06:51 (eighteen years ago) link
also looking fwd to the gay-pop-thru-the-ages comp he's putting together for this year, also on Trikont
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 20 January 2006 06:52 (eighteen years ago) link
That comp thing sounds fantastic!
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Friday, 20 January 2006 20:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― Telephonething (Telephonething), Sunday, 7 May 2006 00:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Sunday, 7 May 2006 19:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Sunday, 7 May 2006 19:38 (eighteen years ago) link
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:53 (seventeen years ago) link
― tiit (tiit), Sunday, 17 September 2006 10:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 17 September 2006 10:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 21 September 2006 03:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― EARLY-90S MAN (Enrique), Thursday, 21 September 2006 08:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― tiit (tiit), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:14 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 21 September 2006 21:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 21 September 2006 22:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 22 September 2006 08:16 (seventeen years ago) link
Also:
http://69.93.254.120/G/storage/site1/files/24/51/42/245142_76323876e8d154tarctm06.jpg
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Friday, 29 September 2006 20:22 (seventeen years ago) link
Has anyone here read "Teenage" yet ?
― Hedgerows, Monday, 14 January 2008 16:33 (sixteen years ago) link
no. i was like huh? i thought it was going to be about postwar teenagers. or, the invention of the teenager i guess. but it's a prehistory. is he doing another volume?
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 14 January 2008 17:39 (sixteen years ago) link
I don't know. Not sure how music oriented it is in any event. Just wondered whether anyone had road tested it. He is a writer I do like but am not sure about this one.
― Hedgerows, Monday, 14 January 2008 17:48 (sixteen years ago) link
Great source of info on Joy Divison but I can't stand reading this liner notes on the Joy Division releases, especially the Collector's editions the past few months. I even can stand Morley's big ol' essay on the Heart And Soul box set more than Savage's, which is saying a lot. (Not that I don't enjoy some Morley pieces, but THAT one was a doozy.)
― Mackro Mackro, Monday, 14 January 2008 18:06 (sixteen years ago) link
His Kinks book is great!
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Friday, September 29, 2006 10:22 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
this is good to know. iirc quondam ilxor mark s said he had the hell of a time writing it, and i was unsure whether the book was not good as a result of this.
― display name fatigue (special guest stars mark bronson), Monday, 2 February 2009 20:40 (fifteen years ago) link
back to the well: the england's dreaming tapes
― juniper jazz (haitch), Monday, 4 May 2009 02:12 (fifteen years ago) link
Isn't Simon Reynolds doing something similar with the Rip It Up tapes?
― Alex in NYC, Monday, 4 May 2009 12:14 (fifteen years ago) link
has done so already!
― juniper jazz (haitch), Monday, 4 May 2009 12:17 (fifteen years ago) link
Thanks for the tip, I didn't know this was available.
I just read England's Dreaming cover to cover again last month. It was good at 15, 25, and now 32. I appreciate that book more and more each time I read it. I am looking forward to 700+ pages of the source material.
― Your original display name will be displayed in brackets (Display Name), Monday, 4 May 2009 15:13 (fifteen years ago) link
Just finished England's Dreaming, a compelling and fascinating read for the most part. I think I would second the views expressed upthread that Savage is more of a historian than a critic. His ability to tell the story and to contextualize it is nothing short of breathtaking. And when he does take the time to describe the music he does so in ringingly persuasive terms.
I thought there were one or two strange omissions though, firstly there was hardly any mention at all of John Peel. Given that one of Savage's major themes is the way punk was filtered through the media, and given Peel's key role in the development of punk, this seems very strange.
Secondly, this is kind of lascivious but there was also precious little mention of sex in the book. Except for a brief reference to Sid going "so who's gonna fuck me tonight?" after a gig, you'd have thought none of the Pistols ever got off with anyone. I'd have liked to read more about whether or not they had girlfriends, groupies and so on. I can't imagine Jones and Cook doing badly for themselves, but Lydon has always seemed something of a sexless figure (there was the famous quote about "two and a half minutes of squelching").
― ban this sick stunt (anagram), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 14:25 (thirteen years ago) link
i think steve jones was a sex maniac and fucked loaves of bread and stuff like that
― end to end berners (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 14:55 (thirteen years ago) link
I thought there were one or two strange omissions though, firstly there was hardly any mention at all of John Peel.
Savage was sort of associated with Throbbing Gristle/ Gen P-Orridge, I think? And they never had much time for Peel, and he didn't play them much.
― Tom D has taken many months to run this thread to ground (Tom D.), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 15:01 (thirteen years ago) link
― end to end berners (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 14:55 (32 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
he whacked off in Glen Matlock's sandwich but I think that was less about him being a pervert and more about Glen Matlock being annoying
― puppetry of the pulis (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 15:30 (thirteen years ago) link
― Hedgerows, Monday, 14 January 2008 16:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
"Teenage" IS about the invention of the teenager, exploding the idea that teenagers didn't exist before WW2. long & detailed, but readable. I thought it was pretty great.
― backlash stan straw man fan (m coleman), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 15:49 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/nov/14/california-punk
He compiled a collection of circa 77 California punk
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 16:46 (thirteen years ago) link
x-post
That does sound interesting
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 16:47 (thirteen years ago) link
there's also this companion book which you may already be aware of:http://www.thelineofbestfit.com/2009/08/jon-savage-the-england%E2%80%99s-dreaming-tapes/
― piscesx, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 17:10 (thirteen years ago) link
The mythologising in Savage's book is wonderful, as I recall (long time since I read it). Punk is all about mythology because they wanted it to be that way. They never wanted to be mere musicians. That's why I love the aforementioned Greil Marcus book on punk too, wrapping it up with DaDa and Situationalism, philosophies about the heroics of failure.
― Dr X O'Skeleton, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 18:14 (thirteen years ago) link
http://teenagefilm.com/film/
― sensual bathtub (group: 698) (schlump), Saturday, 14 May 2011 18:29 (thirteen years ago) link
Situationism. (I'm being pedantic, but I think it matters because there was also an unrelated situationalist school of ethics at around the same time.)
― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 14 May 2011 19:24 (thirteen years ago) link
of course the Situationists themselves opposed the use of the word situationism to describe their theories
― ban this sick stunt (anagram), Saturday, 14 May 2011 20:37 (thirteen years ago) link
but I think it matters because there was also an unrelated situationalist school of ethics at around the same time
To prevent confusion in case an Episcopalian clergyman from the early 70s is sucked into a time warp and ends up reading this thread.
― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 14 May 2011 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
The new morality, baby.
I saw Teenage yesterday, based on Savage's book (haven't read it). I'd taken something for my hay fever beforehand, so I drifted a bit--I'd like to see it again. By the director's calculation, about 85% archival, the rest recreations (made to look archival, and very convincingly). Between the narration and the music, it's got a dreamlike quality that works well. I wanted the film to carry forward into Elvis and rock and roll, but I know that's outside the scope of Savage's book.
― clemenza, Sunday, 5 May 2013 13:43 (eleven years ago) link