In the song "New York, New York", is Frank Sinatra saying "New York (City), New York (City)" or "New York (City), New York (State)"?

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I have always assumed that Frank is singing (City), (City). It's in the intonation. Same way I know that Ja Rule is singing (City), (State). Which I suspect is the reason the question arose, yes?

Anyway, it's all about the Bernstein-Comden-Green "New York, New York," not the Kander & Ebb.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 14 February 2005 23:01 (nineteen years ago) link

It's up to you, Schenectady!

― briania (briania), Monday, 14 February 2005 23:11 (nineteen years ago) link

it's a helluva town.

― stockholm cindy's secret childhood (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 14 February 2005 23:33 (nineteen years ago) link

I have always assumed that Frank is singing (City), (City). It's in the intonation. Same way I know that Ja Rule is singing (City), (State). Which I suspect is the reason the question arose, yes?

No.

― his face was burned off in a flaming crossbow accident (King Kobra), Monday, 14 February 2005 23:34 (nineteen years ago) link

maybe "new york, new york" is actually shorthand for "new york (football giants, who play in new jersey), new york (football jets, who also play in new jersey)," and frank is actually singing it as a bitter and sarcastic new jerseyan.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 14 February 2005 23:38 (nineteen years ago) link

I always thought the double meaning was intended.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 14 February 2005 23:43 (nineteen years ago) link

I always thought the double meaning was intended.

Communist.

― his face was burned off in a flaming crossbow accident (King Kobra), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 00:34 (nineteen years ago) link

If the Bronx is up and the Battery's down, then I assume the first new york mentioned is wherever falls between those two places. I'm assuming thats Manhattan. Having never been to NYC or the USA I could be talking out my arse, but I've always assumed the songs title was a little joke at the repetition of the city name and state.

― kate/papa november (papa november), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:17 (nineteen years ago) link

"I have always assumed that Frank is singing (City), (City). It's in the intonation. Same way I know that Ja Rule is singing (City), (State)."

funny, I assumed the opposite.

― Al (sitcom), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:34 (nineteen years ago) link

If the Bronx is up and the Battery's down, then I assume the first new york mentioned is wherever falls between those two places. I'm assuming thats Manhattan.

presumably "the battery" means battery park, which is the farthest downtown you can go in manhattan. the bronx begins at the uptown end -- running parallel to harlem, inwood, etc, and extending farther north up towards westchester.

― stockholm cindy's secret childhood (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:40 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't understand. Why don't they address is Manhattan, New York. How is Manhattan more New York than Brooklyn?
-- Alba (albab...), February 14th, 2005 9:39 AM.

If someone offered me an all-expenses paid trip to "New York", and I found I *couldn't* go to Manhatten, I'd be pretty cheesed.

― Sasha (sgh), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 05:40 (nineteen years ago) link

It sounds bad enough the first time he sings it ...

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 06:42 (nineteen years ago) link

If someone offered me an all-expenses paid trip to "New York", and I found I *couldn't* go to Manhatten, I'd be pretty cheesed.

manhattan's not all that great.

― stockholm cindy's secret childhood (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 13:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Forget 'Big Apple,' N.Y. wants a new slogan: City seeks to trademark 'The World's Second Home'

― stockholm cindy's secret world with martin bashir (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 17 February 2005 13:49 (nineteen years ago) link

i don't want a new slogan, i don't want the fucking olympics here, and i don't want a goddamn west side stadium!

― stockholm cindy's secret world with martin bashir (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 17 February 2005 13:51 (nineteen years ago) link

"the big apple"'s meaninglessness is exactly what makes it a great slogan! "the world's second home" is way too loaded.

― stockholm cindy's secret world with martin bashir (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 17 February 2005 13:56 (nineteen years ago) link

and boring.

― Jay-Kid (Jay-Kid), Thursday, 17 February 2005 20:42 (nineteen years ago) link

ten years pass...

BTW: I only recently learned that "New York, New York" implies "Manhattan" whereas "New York City" refers to all five boroughs. (New Yorkers can take issue with this, but it's in the stylebook at my job.)
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, February 14, 2005 11:11 AM (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Aw, I was so much younger then.

― jaymc, Thursday, 16 April 2015 05:15 (nine years ago) link

one year passes...

http://www.npr.org/2015/11/25/457289950/broadway-composer-john-kander-reflects-on-a-career-of-hidden-treasures

has a big clip from the rejected theme song. clearly about manhattan.

― Einstein, Kazanga, Sitar (abanana), Saturday, 28 January 2017 10:00 (seven years ago) link

Re: thread 1, seems obvious to me that he's borrowing the familiar City, State formula, but giving emphasis to to it in a way that turns it, emotionally, into City, CITY!!!! I mean no way on that awesome last declaration is he thinking about NYC's situaton within the larger state economy or upstate getaway optiions or w/e.

― stein beck ii: the wrath of grapes (Doctor Casino), Saturday, 28 January 2017 17:27 (seven years ago) link

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