the term 'boogie' as referring to early 80s post-disco R&B, C or D

I agree, Michael: definitely a 1986 cut-off, and to these ears specifically around summer 1986, as the BPMs swung back up again and other genres took over.

"Yeah, maybe that's what they were trying to say. But if so, they're still dumb, since plenty of late '70s disco didn't go pop (and plenty of this r&b stuff people have been calling "boogie" did, obviously) (and on both sides, the pop stuff is often the best.)

-- xhuxk"

hmm, i have to disagree about this. most of the really poppy disco was in fact pretty terrible, it was the underground stuff stuff that was mostly decent. by the time the more r+b sounding boogie came into being, it was pretty good all around, both the poppy stuff and the underground stuff. but i definitely see a difference in the "integrity" of the two styles, much disco was made as a cash in while boogie was kind of just an extension of soul music which was always okay with being popular but i dont think it was its primary objective.

There's no need to romanticize non-crossover disco to the point of not acknowledging just how much total shit there was out there.

That said, pop crossover would be a distinct minority in my own list of the 100 best disco songs.

this thread is getting out of control. i am still not clear if i know what we are talking about in this thread. early 80s prelude style, right? NOT "rare groove"???

80s Prelude is a good generic reference point, but I think what this thread shows is that "boogie" can encompass many different genre strands in the post-disco era. There are some rare grooves that would be considered boogie, and hell, I've seen "2-step soul" mixes with a lot of boogie sounding tracks.

omg pipecock still a tard

most of the really poppy disco was in fact pretty terrible, it was the underground stuff stuff that was mostly decent

dude come the fuck on

Yeah really. Where's the terrible track on this:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:0pfwxqw5ldhe"> http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:0pfwxqw5ldhe

both the KC ones, for starters.

Horse. Shit.

Back to boogie. Boogie is bourgie. And some of the best boogie is the bourgiest.

Definitely a British term, and I believe the people making the music at this time all called it "funk." Anytime the lyrics references the music or the feel of the music, it's "we got the funk", "I'm gonna give the funk to right now", etc.

Most of the disco tunes using the word "funk" (or "funky") tended to have funk elements, in that the beat wasn't just plain 4/4 but there was also some slightly element of syncopation in there. No?

mike, that CD set looks great! I've never heard some of them, like "Dancin" by Grey and Hanks. "Love Injection" by Trussel is one of the greatest songs ever recorded, of course.

I'm curious about the "scene" these CDs were compiled in honour of. 1989, huh?

i think there can be a difference between 'mainstream poppiness' and 'black music poppiness'. obviously there can be a lot of overlap but theres certain R&B/disco/boogie/whatever tracks that are obviously great songs with populist appeal but they arent/werent going to be big pop hits.

It would have been partly the original fans of the stuff. After all it was only 5-10 years in the past. Plus the underground warehouse type scene that Soul II Soul were at the forefront of. I remember listening to Kiss FM (London) in those days (they were not yet legal but used to broadcast pretty consistently at the weekends). A lot of the older music still got played. It's a process of evolution. Nothing just cuts off abruptly.

Yeah dubmill I think that's what's interesting to me. It's sort of like if someone started up a classic 2-step garage night in London right now, or something.

I do agree that it seems weird that in 1989, there was a scene based on reviving tunes that weren't even a decade old yet. A sort of instant nostalgia for the people who grew up with them, and a quick catch-up history lesson for those who hadn't. I can also see that it was a logical follow-on from the mid-1970s funk revivalism of the original early 1987-era rare groove scene, as once that period had been thoroughly excavated then it would have made sense to keep moving forwards. That's certainly what Norman Jay did on his weekly KISS FM rare groove show, back in the station's pirate days.

N.B. When KISS finally opened as a legal station in 1990, it was these old soul boys that initially dominated. Over the opening weekend, you barely heard a contemporary tune.

Anyhow, once you've revived everything up until 3 or 4 years ago, then the only way forward is to return to the contemporary.

Tracer: According to my sis, Trussel's "Love Injection" was one of THE Friday night @ the Borderline tunes, played every week.

It doesn't seem especially weird to me because in a sense they weren't being revived - they just carried on being played, certainly by the old school Kiss DJs, eg Norman Jay, Trevor Nelson, Tony Monson and so on. Of course there was a younger listener for whom it was something they were being 'educated' about as opposed to having heard it when it first came out.

I think it was only with the advent of New Jack Swing that the earlier music began to seem truly old.

This is a waaaaay better single-disc comp of pop disco.

http://www.amazon.com/Disco-54-Collection-Various-Artists/dp/B000005KOY

(sorry, that was like a 12-hour x-post)

"Yeah really. Where's the terrible track on this:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:0pfwxqw5ldhe

-- Kevin John Bozelka"

you want me to name just one?

The Hustle Van McCoy
That's the Way (I Like It) KC & the Sunshine Band
Car Wash Rose Royce
Disco Inferno Trammps
(Shake, Shake, Shake) Shake Your Booty KC & the Sunshine Band
You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real) Sylvester
Miss Broadway Belle Epoque

that's like half of it. and some of the most offensively crap pop disco isnt even on there: the village people, "kung fu fighting", so many bad cover/disco versions, etc.

"This is a waaaaay better single-disc comp of pop disco.

http://www.amazon.com/Disco-54-Collection-Various-Artists/dp/B000005KOY

-- Eric H."

Car Wash - Rose Royce
Instant Replay - Dan Hartman

in fact you are correct, only 2 that i despise on that one. i'm not trying to paint a picture of anything that wasnt true, there were tons of bad disco records in the straight up disco era and in the boogie era. the thing is, the best boogie songs were often billboard r&b hits if nothing else, while so many of the pop disco jams were just atrocious. i blame the corny white disco people who didnt know what good dance music sounded like but bought lots of albums.

You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real) Sylvester

you gotta be fucking kidding me

i blame the corny white disco people who didnt know what good dance music sounded like but bought lots of albums.

-- pipecock, Monday, March 17, 2008 6:13 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Link

dom where is cornywhitepipecock.jpg

i mean dude no one is arguing there wasnt corny pop disco. whats your point? if you think there wasn't corny early 80s R&B yr tripping tho, just because that shit didnt make pure funk soundtracks doesnt mean it didnt exist - it sounds like yr familiarity w/ that shit basically begins and ends w/ the (corny) "boogie canon".

thats the only thing i can figure man.

but there are tons of 'boogie canon' shit that i think is wack anyway ... just like theres a decent # of P&P tracks where after awhile it just all starts to blend together and you wish some dude like sylvester would swoop in and save it all

Deej, how often do you play records for people in clubs?

You Make Me Feel Mighty Real is genius. Yr crazy.

xp about 1nce a month. i wasnt posting that as a dj or anything, purely listener perspective

Soul II Soul were way cornier than any of this stuff, regardless. (But yeah, any purist putz who hates "Car Wash" and "Disco Inferno" and KC and Sylvester is living on some idiot planet I never want to visit. If you leave that stuff out of your definition of disco, you might as well stick to folk festivals.)

I mean, there is almost NOTHING cornier than "let's keep our holy organic authentic soul music free from Top 40 additives than most people find fun" bullshit.

And I seriously doubt "corny white disco people" were the Trammps' primary audience, for God's sake.

(And "Instant Reply" by Dan Hartman is one of the great bubble-disco songs of all time, by the way.)

"Miss Broadway" by Belle Epoque = One of history's most remarkable Bo Diddley rips. Jeezh. (Which yeah, is somewhat less corny than fucking smooth jazz.)

this is such a great turning point album. you can smell the 80's coming. school of 79 disco meets turn of the decade electro/r&b. every dj should own a copy.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415WTDRA6NL._AA240_.jpg

(xp: Nothing against folk festivals and smooth jazz, which of course can be wonderful sometimes. Just have no interest in picking them instead of music that happens to have awesome hooks in it.)

"Soul II Soul were way cornier than any of this stuff, regardless"

whats SIIS got to do with boogie?

They're mentioned upthread; do a search.

Every DJ should own "Shake It Up (Do The Boogaloo)" by Rod (last name: Niangandoumou). Surprised nobody's mentioned that here; it's from 1981, right?

i am no dj, but i own the rod 12inch.

The album boogies well, too!

everyone should own "astro boogie" by today tomorrow forever too. from 1979. a disco group that decided late in the game to add p funk to their disco. like the adc band.

Is Captain Sky considered boogie? The albums I have are from 1978 and 1979, so he might be too early.

How about Richard "Dimples" Fields? He was great! But maybe too slow? I have two different albums from 1982.

And hey, what about Ray Parker Jr.? (I bet if he was more obscure, he'd count for sure. Or at least Raydio would.)

"Shake You Down" by Gregory Abbot (1986) is too late, right?

But what about Midnight Star, then? Or "Attack of the Name Game" by Stacy Lattisaw? (Heck, what about Teena Marie, for that matter? She boogied for sure!)

Or what about stuff on the cusp of disco and New Orleans r&b, like say Lee Dorsey's "Night People" or Cheyne's "Call Me Mr. Telephone" or Musique's "Push Push (In The Bush)"? Does that count? (It should.)

Musique is simply Disco. And way to fast to be boogie.

"Soul II Soul were way cornier than any of this stuff, regardless"

whats SIIS got to do with boogie?

I mentioned them, but in the context of their role as DJs on the London club scene in the mid to late '80s (when boogie would certainly have been a part of their repertoire), not for their own music. I thought that distinction was obvious in my post.

I never said they were boogie, actually. (I don't think I ever said anybody was boogie, really, except Foghat.) I just hadn't taken a gratuitous swipe at Soul II Soul in years, so I went for it.

"You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real) Sylvester

you gotta be fucking kidding me

-- deej"

nope. sylvester had many fantastic tracks, that one just isn't one of them. if i never hear that one again, my life will be much better for it.

"You Make Me Feel Mighty Real is genius. Yr crazy.

-- dan selzer"

you can feel free to play it all you want, then.

"I mean, there is almost NOTHING cornier than "let's keep our holy organic authentic soul music free from Top 40 additives than most people find fun" bullshit."

i really dont know what you mean. there is good poppy disco, those records just arent them. for example, Chic is one of the best disco groups ever and they did the pop stuff quite perfectly. it wasnt a joke, but it was shit that people could dig.

"And I seriously doubt "corny white disco people" were the Trammps' primary audience, for God's sake."

i just hate that track, regardless of who likes it.

"(And "Instant Reply" by Dan Hartman is one of the great bubble-disco songs of all time, by the way.)

-- xhuxk"

if you say so.

"Soul II Soul were way cornier than any of this stuff, regardless. (But yeah, any purist putz who hates "Car Wash" and "Disco Inferno" and KC and Sylvester is living on some idiot planet I never want to visit. If you leave that stuff out of your definition of disco, you might as well stick to folk festivals.)

-- xhuxk"

i have literally a couple thousand disco records. basically every one of them is better than those songs. why should i keep them around, because idiots like them? i'll pass.

as for some of the other reccomendations, love the Debbie Jacobs (i have both the 12"s from that one as well as the album) but it is hardly boogie in any way, really. the Rod 12" is exactly the definition of a boring boogie record. there must be 150 better Prelude records, many of which are just as easy to find.

I dunno guys KC & the Sunshine band is pretty awful and cheesy. And not cheesy in the good way (see: Silver Contenvion), just embarassingly cheesy. "Car Wash" and "You Make Me Feel" are pretty unfickwithable though.

"I dunno guys KC & the Sunshine band is pretty awful and cheesy. And not cheesy in the good way (see: Silver Contenvion), just embarassingly cheesy. "Car Wash" and "You Make Me Feel" are pretty unfickwithable though.

-- The Brainwasher"

KC is just some of the worst shit i have ever heard. silver convention too. i dont see how that sylvester and RR joint are any less corny though. there are literally SO MANY better disco songs out there. and to whomever mentioned P&P, i dont care for most of their records either. i tend to think pat adams is crazily overrated. leroy burgess too. they had some things i like, but they too were painfully corny.

some of the most retarded things i have ever read in my entire life appear in this thread.

-- pipecock, Monday, March 17, 2008 6:31 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

well yeah, there are better disco songs out there. that doesn't mean that those two songs aren't enjoyable...

"well yeah, there are better disco songs out there. that doesn't mean that those two songs aren't enjoyable...

-- The Brainwasher"

it's like saying your two favorite hiphop songs of all time are "u can't touch this" and "ice ice baby". those might be enjoyable to some people, but they still suck.

uh.. okay.