theresa may: is her project subtly machiavellian or merely cunning, baldrick-style?

Makes perfect sense!

I’ve heard that before.

Newsnight getting on my nerves; fucking Maitlis saying Jeremy Corbyn would vote Leave if it went to a second vote. (Narrator: ‘actually, he’s said he’d vote Remain again, many times!’).

https://preview.ibb.co/cUat0L/Screenshot-20181113-205940.png

Last night and Salzburg both confirmed something terrifying about Theresa May: Her public evasiveness doesn’t hide some grand secret strategy that she refuses to divulge. The whole strategy is meaningless platitudes. There is nothing behind the curtain https://t.co/5NQcuaDjxG

— Jon Stone (@joncstone) December 14, 2018

i mean this was known but

so Juncker is suggesting she is quite similar to some kind of amorphous blob type thing.. hmm.

Blobby.

I would be more afraid if there was something behind the curtain. Now I am 100% sure that there will be a new referendum quite soon. The UK is not going to make a fool of itself forever. Though in a way it would be funny...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxa851vAJtI

The UK is not going to make a fool of itself forever.

citation needed

didn't you guys have an empire once?

that was some other guys, they're dead i think

https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aydOe4W_700b.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T72TopWbXJg

Now I am 100% sure that there will be a new referendum quite soon. The UK is not going to make a fool of itself forever.

No chance. Watch this space.

The distance from not-forever to quite-soon is, um, nebulous.

No chance for the former. Watch this space for the latter. In case of confusion.

I think there will be a second referendum because London and the City of London are unhappy and London is, ultimately, the only thing that the entire conservative party cares about.

I'm not sure if that's true of a big slice of the grassroots? Feels like the source of the tension between the soi-disant gentry membership and most of the MPs

You are right, I exaggerated out of anger. Still pretty sure that will be the deciding factor, ultimately,

Certainly feels like the ERG represents the full extent of the crisis capitalists and Empire fantasists in the Parliamentary party, and that's small enough to be negligible if the right coalition of pro-business interests could be cobbled together from elsewhere

The only thing they really care about is stopping Corbyn getting into No. 10.

That's increasingly not the case, I think - I hear a lot of "Rather Corbyn than May's plan"

who are you hanging out with though?

And are you sure they're Tories?

if it's us we're all tankies!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuYvvzFWwAA4iaf.jpg

the *they* who are shitting it for corbz + mcD in No.10 are so legion that sometimes I think we're all going to die lol.

The distance from not-forever to quite-soon is, um, nebulous

I've just literally heard a poem recited called "mrs may stands at the dispatch box and sees all". It was just some words, but what's fucking right with these people?

Conhome commenters so they’re atypical but not that atypical - there’s still a group that think that Corbyn will damage the UK beyond recognition (and within that a “last election ever” subgroup, but most recognise that incompetence is the greater danger than an iron fist), but they also consider May’s plan will chain us to the yoke of the EU until the ending of the Fourth Age.

There's probably a group that believes that any Corbyn government will be a short-lived disaster that will enable the Conservatives to sweep back into power with a real Moggite in charge. (This is wishful thinking for a whole range of reasons, chief among them the complete toxification of the party for pretty much anyone under 45). Still, I doubt that this group includes any actual Tory MPs and there isn't a single one who would vote with Labour in a No Confidence vote against their own party.

I think there will be a second referendum because London and the City of London are unhappy and London is, ultimately, the only thing that the entire conservative party cares about.

This is pretty much dead in the water after Boris Johnson's "fuck business" comment. They stopped caring about what the City wants ages ago, and one of the more astonishing aspects of Brexit is the extent to which the Tories have been prepared to rupture the link between the party, the City and the CBI. They are trashing their brand in the process and they don't even seem to care.

At risk of stating the obvious the City of London is not London, and while London may be the clearest example of Thatcherite hypercapitalism going it's also a very solidly Labour city and that isn't going to change any time soon. And of course it's stuffed to the gills with metropolitan elite Remoaner saboteurs. The whole Farage myth is based around London vs the rest of the country, with London on the wrong side of history.

is that the basis of the farage myth? I thought he was a former city boy who wanted to be mayor of london

He also went to an expensive school where his teachers identified him as a fascist, so naturally this all gets glossed over when the BBC is presenting him as the voice of the man in the street.

yes he went to dulwich college and was a metals trader -- briefly at drexel burnham lambert lol, tho never i think remotely a high-flier

(city high-fliers i guess don't need to go into politics)

The artist Jeremy Deller was a contemporary of his at DC, which is weird because he seems so young in comparison (and yes, JD says his classmate was a massive fash knob).

Well yes this is all the reality rather than the myth.

Bump. Is there any chance she'll throw in the towel after tonight's vote?

who fuckin knows, honestly

at least now we can be pretty certain that her project was indeed merely cunning, baldrick-style - a cold comfort before we all starve to death, admittedly, but a comfort nonetheless

I would imagine not, but if it's truly massive then maybe? But she would only see another leadership election as divisive...

A linked question would be whether she'd lead the Tories into a general election.

She's said she won't, hasn't she?

Was that video of the audience woman on question time linked in the past week? Don’t think I’ve seen it.

xp(lead them into the next election, that is)

OMG I LOVE HER

YES TO ALL OF THIS YES YES YES SHE WINS #BBCQT pic.twitter.com/7UgVqBdXb0

— Alex Andreou (@sturdyAlex) January 10, 2019

“People try to talk about dates; what I’m clear about is the next general election is in 2022 and I think it’s right another party leader takes us into that general election.”

maybe there's a baseline where enough of her "allies" tell her they're giving up to force her hand, but I wouldn't bet on it because only a real numbskull would want to be the leader of the Tory party right now

if there’s an election this year - in order to facilitate an A50 extension - she would probably have to lead them into it

and it would be delicious

xp How on earth would the Tories find one of those among their number?

how to win BBCQT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4c5q8UjUz4

No I mean a *real* numbskull, an epochal avatar of numbskullery

he's running
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Official_portrait_of_Mr_Jeremy_Hunt_crop_2.jpg/220px-Official_portrait_of_Mr_Jeremy_Hunt_crop_2.jpg

that looks like one of those colourised 19th century photos.