Betty Davis

Yes, you're absolutely right. Only don't read the Funkadelic poll thread else you'll lose your illusion.

Cred appeal: Sex funk.
Reference: Funkadelic.
Purpose: Assert authority of opinion, re:Betty Davis.
Status: Pending.

these records are great, kinda surprised any funk fan would find something to dislike about them

Neil Schon never played better in his life!

"Any funk fan" "Neil Schon" "Any funk fan" "Neil Schon" "Any funk fan" "Neil Schon" Keep repeating "Any funk fan" "Neil Schon" Soon the surprise will dissipate "Any funk fan" "Neil Schon"

his playing on the first Betty album is great, certainly as sharp and funky as a lot of contemporary shit-hot funk lead guitarists like the Isleys or Graham Central Station. He doesn't approach Eddie Hazel-heights of weirdness but few do.

I mean what do find so awful about these albums? Be specific.

Cuz to me they combine the best of a lot of other funk bands in a really tight and unique way - Sly Stone plus Funkadelic plus a woman who can out-shriek and growl Parlet and the Brides combined

Chuck said it all above so I doubt I could add anything really compelling to his argument. In the absence of hooks, song structure, and a great (hell, even a decent) voice, these songs needed to be waaaaaaaaaay sharper and funkier than they are for them to work. Out-shrieking and growling Parlet and the Brides is hardly a recommendation because their albums are bad too (though not as bad as Davis'). And Sly Stone plus Funkadelic = Parliament and I'll take Trombipulation over any of these.

Also, I'm with Chuck re: the backstory which really is a great one. But I fear these are records people want to be better than they actually are. I want them to be too.

Not sure what I Eat Cannibals is getting at upthread but I think he's saying that I need to reference a much less "mainstream" group than Funkadelic to establish my Betty-bashing authority. I hope I got that wrong, tough, cuz it's an absurd premise.

And fwiw, I don't even know what a recumbent bicycle is.

Actually I didn't know what it was, either, but here's the wiki on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recumbent_bicycle

Actually, I wish I still had a copy of Never Buy Texas From A Cowboy.

But yeah, people are pretty clear up thread about why they have misgivings about Betty Davis despite the fact that she dresses really cool. It'd be nice if her hardcore defenders here actually addressed, say, her mediocre singing voice and lack of decent tunes instead of simply dismissing those who are more ambivalent about her as "so fucking wrong." (I don't think anybody has said that they didn't want to like her. That'd be nuts.)

I can see why folks say the first album is better, though. The second one is a bit low-key at times when that's exactly what I don't want. I haven't heard the third one yet.

Complaining about lack of tunes seems weird to me, though - The Fall don't need tunes, Can don't need tunes...

...because they have other compensating features, e.g. Mark E. Smith and funk-as-puck gooves in The Fall's case and in Can's case...well, I'm no lover (would prolly flunk your Tago Mago test Bimble) but Ege Bamyasi (I think) contains several tracks funkier than anything on the Davis discs. Plus their Pink Floyd-James Brown fusion is more interesting to ponder, talk about at parties, etc.

grooves too

yeah I don't get that criticism either - does James Brown have "tunes"? These songs are about polyrhythmic vamping (and the actual polyrhythms are just insanely tight). I'll grant that she doesn't have a traditionally "good" singing voice but I don't get that as a criticism either - she's not singing showtunes, she's presenting this aggro, sexed-up persona and her voice reflects that perfectly - its composed of all the essential vocal tics from Sly, James Brown, etc. but twisted along her own feminine lines. I didn't know vocal range was a prerequisite for women in funk - I do think of her more like a female James Brown, leading the band with her own idiosyncratic grunts and sqwuaks and sheer force of ego/personality, while the backing band cuts the shit out of what are essentially minimalist, rhythmic experiments. Personally I can't think of a better acid-funk combo than Pete Cosey's wah-wah'd chords over that stomping drum lick in "Shoop B Doop and Cop Him" (which chuck thinks is worse than its title! so whatever)

(and Kevin deferring to chuck's opinion about what is funky = weak! sorry but have you actually heard chuck ramble on about how funky various shitty 70s buttrock bands are? cuz it gets old real quick)

a female James Brown

Wow.

Her voice sounds thin, like I said. (Nobody said anything about wanting her to do show tunes.) And she doesn't vamp all that well either (well, her voice doesn't.) And believe it or not, some funk songs are catchier than other funk songs. Not really that difficult a concept to grasp, I woudln't think.

And honestly, does she even use her voice as a rhythm instrument all that much? That's what James Brown and Mark E Smith and great rappers do (and some Fall songs are catchier than other Fall songs, too, by the way, and not all Can songs are as catchy as, say, "I'm So Green.") If anything, her singing generally seems oblivious to the rhythm.

But again, I basically like her. Hell, she has an album in my heavy metal book (which nobody ever complained about, strangely.) She was obviously an original, which counts for a lot, and she clearly had a badass sense of humor. All I'm saying (and a few people are saying above) is that her songs fall short of her hype, and her hair, and Nona Hendryx.

then why do you present your complaints as being about the music, if what you're really upset about is the hype?

James Brown ref is in terms of her relation to the band and the music - as a leader that doesn't play an instrument, yet nevertheless is the music's clear center.

honestly I don't give a shit about hype in relation to anybody. I'd heard her stuff WAY before I saw anything written about her (she merits about a paragraph in Miles' autobio, for example, and her music isn't mentioned at all)

but, y'know, way to be disappointed in other people getting excited about something they haven't been able to hear before

well, I think her voice *is* thin, I think some of the songs are a bit thin lyrically outside of good phrase (or just song title). However, these records really groove. I don't know; it's possible relating to the musicians helps here? the band really sounds good behind Davis, very tight, and they *are* funky (tho not Meters funky, or James Brown funky -- but I still think most of the beats and riffs here would sound just fine on Osmium or Cosmic Slop). I mean, on a desert island, I still take my Funkadelic records first, but then Funkadelic is one of my favorite bands. Betty Davis records are just good, hard, very little bullshit funk.

and Kevin deferring to chuck's opinion about what is funky = weak!

O Prunella! Trotting out authenticity to gauge the authority of someone's response is the weakest argument of all.

Look, I wasn't deferring to Chuck's opinion and you know that. We merely share the same opinion on Betty Davis and I didn't have anything compelling to add to his argument. (For what it's worth, which is obviously very little on this thread, I cannot stand 70% of the records in Chuck's metal book so I'm definitely not in the habit of deferring to his opinion, esp. after wasting money on one too many Bang and Mountain records.)

And part of the hype that Chuck (and oh so inauthentic me) are referring to isn't just the Miles/Jimi/women in funk thang; it's simply the hype that these are great records (as opposed to Dominique's much more reasoned and hence infinitely more persuasive "good, hard, very little bullshit funk").

Finally, I have no clue what this means:

way to be disappointed in other people getting excited about something they haven't been able to hear before

Who hasn't been able to hear these records?

Who hasn't been able to hear these records?

-- Kevin John Bozelka, Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:44 AM (7 minutes ago)

They were reissued for a reason.

They were reissued for a reason.

Oh come on. I found a CD of They Say I'm Different in Chicago (where I didn't live at the time) about 5 years ago. And her stuff has been on slsk (and elsewhere, I'm sure) for eons. These are hardly lost albums.

"Not sure what I Eat Cannibals is getting at upthread but I think he's saying that I need to reference a much less "mainstream" group than Funkadelic to establish my Betty-bashing authority. I hope I got that wrong, tough, cuz it's an absurd premise."

Check out my opinions in the Funkadelic thread! That'll prove I don't have a man purse or ride a recumbent bike!

It was a cred appeal.

And what I like about the first album (I've been disappointed by her others) is the incredible depth of the rhythm section. Yeah, her voice is thin, but I like the aggressive come-ons, and I think they hold up better from the first album than on any others. C'mon, Anti-Love Song is a fucking jam.
I'll also say that this is not an album well-served by mp3 encoding and small speakers. You do lose a lot of the bass tone that way (at least the copies I found on SLSK).

OK gotcha.

i have just downloaded "they say i'm different", and now i wish i hadn't read this thread before giving it a listen. boo.

boo to who/what, exactly?

'dedicated to the press' is a killer tune

oh, just boo to seeing so many different responses to her stuff, and possibly having that color my reaction. i like to have fresh ears. though that doesn't happen all that much to me, in reality. and regardless, i just gave it a listen and i quite like it on first reaction. it's pretty ballsy (ovaries-y?). agreed on the no bullshit funk thing upthread.

"her voice is thin"

This particular criticism just bugs me. I don't fucking need her to sound like Tina Turner to accomplish what she so clearly does, here. The quality of her voice is not the centerpiece and it doesn't need to be. "Steppin In Her I. Miller Shoes" is a rather rock and roll track, despite its funkiness, and there's no special need for her voice to have a soulful quality. In doing what she does, she reminds me of some of my favourite white male rock stars, i.e. Roger Daltrey or even Iggy Pop. Howls and screams.

And Nona Hendryx has always bored me to tears, but hey, different strokes for different folks.

I USED TO BEAT HIM WITH A TURQUOISE CHAIN

ballsy (ovaries-y?)

I've made an executive decision, and in these instances, every single time now, we all must say "huevos". Sorry, it just makes sense.

actually, i prefer "cojones".

In doing what she does, she reminds me of some of my favourite white male rock stars, i.e. Roger Daltrey or even Iggy Pop. Howls and screams.

My reaction exactly, though I hear Steven Tyler and Faces-era Rod Stewart and other, even more blackface-y white blooze shouters. Which is kinda the problem I have with her - she sounds like a black chick who's internalized white hard rockers' nut-clutching, overwrought imitations of black male vocalists. Which is fine, but kinda funny. And it takes nothing away from the music, which is pretty uniformly great, at least on the debut. (I haven't listened to They Say all the way through yet.)

dedicated to the press' is a killer tune

-- stevie, Monday, May 28, 2007 8:04 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Link

You got that right! BASS GUITAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She's a freakin' PANTHER on that shit. Prince should be embarrassed, etc.

cf. complaints about her voice, she makes some amazing high note swoops right at the end very of that song ("you swing high, you swing lowOOOOO[impossibly high squeal] - here I go again"]

i love betty davis.

if you guys really like her, find the album ameoba cleansing syndrome by joi, which was made in the mid 90s with fishbone. its one of the best funk rock albums of the last 30 years. jois really into betty davis too.

did that ever get released? i've always wanted to hear it...

not officially. but its on her site for $30. its worth getting. although i think theres two versions out there with diff tracklistings. not sure which one is on her site.

ooh, do you have a link?

$30? who does she think she is, Marissa Merchant?

I only have a 128 kbpr version that I dled from someplace, but it's TOTALLY worth $30. And it does actually have a Betty Davis cover on it (If I'm in Luck, I Just Might Get Picked Up.)

no link... i have it on cd somewhere but i dont know where. its brilliant though. theres one track from it on jois myspace, the very first song. and it fucking KILLS.

joining this funky thing late, but I gotta say I hear the Shuggie Otis Effect at work here, like I bought that Otis reissue w/ the shoutouts from the usual archivist musician hipster guides we all need. I sorta liked the instrumentals in a sub-SlyRiotway and it was nice to have his own version of Strawberry. but actually the Bros Johnson did it way better, their big psychedelic break in the middle is a funk landmark. Betty Davis was a cool figure, I guess, with connections, and I do like a lot of the music, because I have fairly low standards for funky shit such as this--I even like the Miracles record that came after the great City of Angels. but it's not great or anything and she wasn't all that great--if she looked like Phoebe Snow and was married to, like, Harry Chapin and not Miles, then I might perk my head up. but hell, I'll probably buy the reissues even though I have most of the great tracks you could get for years, burned from the vinyl.

haha I don't think I ever bothered to listen to that whole Shuggie album... I'm more of a Johnny fan.

http://www.mp3rockabilly.com/ac501p10.jpg

o yeah

WTF is that instrument?

I gotta say I hear the Shuggie Otis Effect at work here

Big time OTM. Heard Shuggie again a few days ago in the background at a small get together which is where his shit belongs. Inoffensive, serviceable. I didn't even mind when it played twice in a row. But soooo not great, sooo not anything to get exercised about.

Same with Ms. Davis. I can imagine a DJ dropping one of her tracks in a mix and wowing me for those several minutes. But no one on the dancefloor would remember it the next day.

And I still say the original Bette Davis kicks Betty to all kinds of curb.