dj /rupture

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writers are a bit different, naturally. it's reasearch - we should get everything fore free, simply for being special and important people!

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 09:57 (twenty years ago) link

Well also it's basically working for the industry.

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 16 April 2004 10:00 (twenty years ago) link

i'm sticking with the being important and special line, myself, coz i am.

(yay, for smugness - and hypocrisy!)

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 10:02 (twenty years ago) link

Fassy's point is that the 'diasporism' of this kind of mix CD is inherently smug, no? Not that /rupture himself is anything other than a lovely fellow. I think it's a harmless and entertaining kind of smugness - I also like German dancehall tho.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 16 April 2004 10:12 (twenty years ago) link

the diasporism isn't something he even cares about. it's just that every single writer pushes that angle.

ryan kuo (ryan kuo), Friday, 16 April 2004 10:24 (twenty years ago) link

i think it's very difficult to use a word like smug without it having a personal impact. it's the old separation of artist from work chestnut, not really anything new to debate, but i am kinda right. i see no harm in german dancehall, either.

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 10:26 (twenty years ago) link

Why is putting music from a bunch of different cultures together inherently smug?

You might as well say that pursuing some kind of monocultural purism is inherently fascistic.

Or that putting as many big pop hooks together as possible is inherently pandering.

Sure, diasporism can be smug, usually when accompanied by pretentious rhetoric (DJ Spooky) or vapid cosmic overtones (er, remember when all the ambient people were doing musical travelogues).

But Rupture doesn't do either of these things. Nor does he bland all the musics out into mush. Nor does he pretend to any kind of "fusion." Quite the opposite. He lets everything clash against everything else, keeps the noise front and center, makes connections but never at the expense of the beat. Pretty much an ideal model for this sort of thing.

Need more coffee!

bugged out, Friday, 16 April 2004 10:27 (twenty years ago) link

((I'm sure if he was a sixteen year old street kid operating on quote-unquote instinct, we'd all be just fascinated by him...)

bugged out, Friday, 16 April 2004 10:36 (twenty years ago) link

("How on earth did this unformed young genius hear this Japanese music? Amazing!")

bugged out, Friday, 16 April 2004 10:43 (twenty years ago) link

bugged out i love you; you and john darnielle are my fave persons on ilm right now

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 10:45 (twenty years ago) link

good to see someone else who sees thru condescending, paternalistic, vicarious thrill-seeking, outdated, ill-considered po-mo claptrap

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 10:46 (twenty years ago) link

yeah actually i dont find it so easy to seperate artist from work either but on the other hand i find utterly irrelevant whether or not rupture is 'a lovely chap' or whether you'd buy him a pint or not, y'know like "flouncing personal attack" versus er what dave's flouncing namedroppy and entirely selfcentred personal chummyness? i can afford to seem personal cos ... it's not.

i dont buy the inherently smug thing either tho, cos i find that rupture mixes, much like perching on a pruned opinion like "fascist rap", to do nothing to increase the charm of what he uses, i'd allow like bugged out sez that he retains some vitality with the clash aesthetic but it seems a noisy grabby unsympathetic way of doing it. he seems like he thinks he's still weaving soemthing new, tearing off revealing some greater vertigo, but i find that destructive. destructive physiognomy. and no i dont find his use of more obv stuff like egyptian riddim/'light yr ass'/kelis suggests popness but a cheap eye for the most casually yeah "futuristic" blah blah. ok the german dancehall thing was a bit harsh (electric boogie riddim *retch*) but it seems indicative of something, a more peripheral rhetorical 2nd generation mutation circle

prima fassy (mwah), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:00 (twenty years ago) link

oh look xpost with dave "someone else otm!!! well done friend!!!"

prima fassy (mwah), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:02 (twenty years ago) link

There is always a self-satisfied element in putting your own eclecticism on show (eg: any list thread/random playlist thread/what-I-just-bought thread on ILX). That probably goes double when you're selling yourself on it (eg: /rupture, or 2ManyDJs, or most good music writers). There's nothing *wrong* with that but I think it's there.

(It may well be that easier music access and a shuffle-play listening culture will make selling eclecticism increasingly difficult.)

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:04 (twenty years ago) link

selfcentred

i make absolutely no apology for this whatever. i get paid for *my* views *my* ideas *my* writing, not be or think about anyone else. my judgements are my judgements and when people know me, they either agree with me in the main and find my work useful or they think i'm a dick and don't. i don't see how this is a bad thing. re chumminess, it's not, it's just respect and a little civility. i'm not namedropping, then name's already been dropped!

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:07 (twenty years ago) link

i have few friends or allies on ilm, i just like to make it known that i appreciate the rare flashes of common sense i encounter here, fassy

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:09 (twenty years ago) link

Daddino OTM about uncleared samples, or about Rupture's right to get paid?

Well, both really, but mainly the first one, which I was thinking might make this harder to find online. By which I mean shops, since I can't download at home and post from a cafe on my lunch break.

Barima (Barima), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:17 (twenty years ago) link

no of course tico, and tho i cant think of one right now someone could totally come along and make a similar rupturestyle eclectic mix and i would love it to death. and when i say charm i don't mean "ur disrespecting the cultures herein cherrypicker", like human aquariums, kitchen sink exotic that's all i ever do

hey dave when i say selfcentred i mean the opinions coming distant second to your flirting. like a wise dude once said, "you only defend things cos u like em". cudgeled swine leave me be

prima fassy (mwah), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:19 (twenty years ago) link

smugness i see as that natural healthy selfregard turned sick

prima fassy (mwah), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:21 (twenty years ago) link

haha common sense, jeez o people's everyman you may as well have said "cos quetzalcoatl said so"

prima fassy (mwah), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:25 (twenty years ago) link

smugness i see as that natural healthy selfregard turned sick

oh to hell with it, it's evident you are either completely insane and thus i should just keep quiet, or an absolute comedy genius because this line, literally, made me bust out laughing in my office. glass houses etc.

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:31 (twenty years ago) link

I can sort of sympathise with prima's position re DJ/rupture's perceived smugness. I enjoy GTT etc. but I always wonder if he's deliberately avoiding allowing a groove to roll because to do so would allow it to be "just" dance music or pop music or whatever rather than some sort of profound cross-cultural collision wherein the records can "speak" to eachother (contra Bugged Out, I find rupture's approach much less conducive to dancing than, say, 2 Many DJs, whatever level of contempt the latter may have for their material (according to nathalie at any rate)).

Records speaking to eachother is not a concept I dislike actually, but I think it's more interesting when the conversation is unintentional or incidental or mercenary, and when the conversation is happening on a track to track basis, one word or sentence at a time. Something like GTT feels more like a staged play (which incidentally - and cos it supports my argument - Bakhtin says can *never* be dialogic!) with rupture as the director. Sorry Bugged Out but for me at least scenius *is* more interesting than genius. And maybe the problem for rupture is that scenes like dancehall already have the whole diaspora thingy so thoroughly on lockdown that his efforts sometimes strike me as simultaneously redundant and even crude, like someone explaining the meaning of the joke after the punchline.

That said I do enjoy his mixes so maybe I won't agree with all this tomorrow!

PS. Dave I still love you obv!

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:33 (twenty years ago) link

and i can absolutely see where tom is coming from. i've often considered that "eclecticism" is absolutely null and void now for all the above-stated reasons. but i'd contend that it's not the diversity itself that matters any more, no "hey look at me, i'm varied innit" because it's easier for all of us to be that now, its the *connections* that are important.

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:33 (twenty years ago) link

is this a joke?

prima fassy (mwah), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:39 (twenty years ago) link

Which part?

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:43 (twenty years ago) link

but you are the connections! and precisely because the way u can have everything now people want selectas more than ever i think, and now theyre in more of a position to assert who they like more becasue they can hear what else is going on. look how specialist shops are all closing down, look how those rough trade comps are total hotcakes. i dont think rupture is bum cos he's eclectic 4 fux sake, but because he makes music suck

(never yours tim xx)

prima fassy (mwah), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:49 (twenty years ago) link

no it's a crushingly obvious point that i shouldn't really need to state, but it seems that you are saying that you don't like the way he makes his choices. personally on this disc i agree that the tunes are not as strong as they could be, but i like the way he weaves them together. i like the way his mind works and the narrative he creates in a mix. it's actually quite playful at times and far from po-faced which is an oft-used criticism of rupture (i know you haven't used those words, but you may as well have). like bugged out said, i think this is bullshit inverese snobbery. yeah the guy went to harvard - this doesn't make him a bad guy with a wack aesthetic immediately - and i also find the way people jump on other "street" music as being superior to this kind of stuff very close to the paternalistic prejudice seen in concepts like the noble savage or sayings like "aren't those people marvellous, such natural rhythm", not to mention the class problems. fluidity is cool, people should mix. anyway, i like rupture, i like the noise he makes and i think his motives are good.

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:51 (twenty years ago) link

glad you made the above post. you're not such a fucking idiot whe you explain things, you know.

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:52 (twenty years ago) link

Dave in this case the "noble savages" *are* superior but it's hardly rupture's fault that dancehall's been in an insane golden age for the length of his career!

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 16 April 2004 11:59 (twenty years ago) link

I should explain that better: it's not that Jammer or Lenky or whoever are better than rupture *because* they're street, they're better because they're riding the wave of a scene that's filled with really great ideas. That's what I mean about scenius vs genius - how can genius really compete really?

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 16 April 2004 12:01 (twenty years ago) link

i'm not disputing that at all, tim. you're absolutely right. i agree, but i don't think a lot of people use your *incredibly obvious* but absolutely correct criteria. rupture IS NOT asgood as lenky, donovan bennet, lil jon, but he is valid. a lot of people it's a "hey i'm living on the intellectual edge here liking this common black music" kneejerk dismissiveness. that's what i hate. it's so ill-conceived, offensive and really condescending to me. fassy you're right, you are the connections, be yr own eclecticist, screw anyone who tells you otherwise - don't just blanket rule shit out for the sake of it and most of all don't let a this egotistical obsession with being *right* stop you having fun or being a nice person!

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 12:11 (twenty years ago) link

i think genius can, at least in the terms of rupture etc. once u leave that scene and its y'know certain boundaries the everything else can feel flat; when i dissed "uncovering a greater vertigo" i guess i thought in a selfconscious 'ta da!' way but an ideal selecta would have that and make it feel inclusive. maybe i'm fumbling at some paradise garage thing i dunno, but selecta idealism is v dear to me

prima fassy (mwah), Friday, 16 April 2004 12:13 (twenty years ago) link

that my favourite mixes dont actually exist probably isn't relevant...

prima fassy (mwah), Friday, 16 April 2004 12:17 (twenty years ago) link

what wold they be if they did? this is more interesting than arguing, btw

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 12:27 (twenty years ago) link

This perceived "edgy-via-plebian" ethos was to blame for grunge, too, unless I miss my guess! I have both "Gold Teeth Thief" and "Minesweeper Suite " (the former, o base hypocrisy, on a burnt CD strongo sent me, though without it I'd never have looked into \Rupture at all prob'ly) and think they're wonderful but quite different from their sources: intentionally distant from them somehow: but I think the distance is for me best articulated by the distance between psychedelic rock and mainstream rock of the late '60s (13th Floor Elevators = \Rupture; Janis Joplin = L'il Jon). I suspect this analogy will only work for me until I bear it out a little further, which I probably won't do. But the point is that the aloof party, the one whose work seems somehow to look askance at its source, enriches the source: which is not to say that the source "needed" enriching (i.e., is not "smug") but only that such were possible

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 16 April 2004 12:37 (twenty years ago) link

well that's why i like rupture. he doesn't so much connect things as utterly recontextualise them. it is absolutely impossible to further enrich contemporary dancehall and anyone who tried or said they were going to would deserve a sound kicking in my book, but rupture does't do this - he makes it different by both association, juxtaposition, the works. even if you don't like him, you have to give him a small amonut of respect as a good, thoughtful craftsman.

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 12:45 (twenty years ago) link

now, looking at the top of this thread, soulx are a LOT more smug than rupture, there's an attitude of "aint we clever, we can make anyone dance to any old shit", fashion-posing - with rupture you get none of the sarcastic "irony" and, crucially, his records sound *believeable*, you can tell he loves the stuff he's playing.

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 12:49 (twenty years ago) link

that was soulwax, btw

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 12:49 (twenty years ago) link

"points off for not finding the actually dancehally 'light yr ass' flipmode rmx"

I stopped reading after this.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 16 April 2004 15:23 (twenty years ago) link

And not just because I was busy downloading it.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 16 April 2004 15:25 (twenty years ago) link

I would like to hear what Prima's ideal mix is as well. Or if not ideal, adequate...

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 16 April 2004 15:30 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah Soulwax are why I think even proven smugness isn't a great sin - the joke's on them not us cos their tossed-off contemptuous party mixes are about 10000,000,000,000 times better than their real actual music/mixing.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 16 April 2004 16:13 (twenty years ago) link

They sort of raise the queasy question of whether "Can we redeem this?" is ever a valid qn for a musician or selector to be asking. The hardline anti-irony position would be: no.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 16 April 2004 16:14 (twenty years ago) link

tim, you really make some interesting points. how about:
I always wonder if he's deliberately avoiding allowing a groove to roll because to do so would allow it to be "just" dance music or pop music or whatever rather than some sort of profound cross-cultural collision wherein the records can "speak" to eachother

i think sometimes rupture is doing this; i don't find allowing a groove to roll to be inherently superior to setting one up only to fuck it up, or vice versa. to the first point, the first half of gold teeth thief seems to me to be completely danceable throughout, though you do have to shift the style a few times to keep up. i think on the larger level what rupture's better mixes are saying is that these extra-musical structures mirror the structure of dancing (or the dance-listener's activity) naturally; ie the crashy noisey jungly bits mirror when you hit a tune you can't help but keep turning up or the dj keeps amping things up at the crest of the night.

on the other hand i think rupture also knows and interacts with the fact that most people listening to his music are doing so while chained to their computers, driving around, sitting at home, etc; places where the implication of dance is pleasurable but the mind is also free to engage with the transitions, connections, and disconnections he creates.

that might be a bit of having it both ways but it's why i find him fascinating. the 'diaspora' stuff is a red herring, why shouldn't a dj reflect his own tastes?

on a musical note: that dabrye track is hot. it's a nice bite of dj quik's style with more bassy techno to it.

rgeary (rgeary), Friday, 16 April 2004 16:36 (twenty years ago) link

My take is that at least in the past /rupture heard and drew out a diasporism that ALREADY EXISTED and so yeah its like hearing a joke explained, but its also like hearing dj mixes that you feel the artists wanted in the *first place* but no other dj was willing to give them. I mean he likes this stuff, he hears how it fits, he makes it fit! Also the whole adding drillcore beneath aaliyah, etc. was something that party djs were doing for years anyway!

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 16 April 2004 17:32 (twenty years ago) link

has anyone here checked rupture live? i have several times. he's very good and does allow people to dance, more flowing than the mix cds, longer mixes, slower transitions coz he has more time. the cross-cultural "conversational" aspect of his sets/mixes is always interesting, but not suffocating. in this context he lets each element breathe a little more. the diasporic thing isn't necessarily a red herring rob and the question should be: why is this something to be sneered at? (answer: it isn't, obviously).

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 17:38 (twenty years ago) link

he says he changes style completely depending on the crowd. in the States (where i saw him) he plays more upfront; in France he says he can do straight beatless noise and people love it.

ryan kuo (ryan kuo), Friday, 16 April 2004 17:45 (twenty years ago) link

not entire sets of noise, just big undanceable chunks as in GTT.

ryan kuo (ryan kuo), Friday, 16 April 2004 17:45 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, i've seen him in nyc, spain and london.... v different material wise but not as *fast* re transitions connections etc as his recorded mixes. any way i'm off out, see ya

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 April 2004 17:49 (twenty years ago) link

five months pass...
So has anyone heard Special Gunpowder yet and does anyone else think that this http://www.cmntours.org.uk/tours/streetmusic/programme.html
looks rather good? Worth 12 squids?

myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 10:11 (nineteen years ago) link


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