HBO's adaptation of Game of Thrones - Thread 2. There are a lot of nerds.

I've been thinking a bit about how 'nuanced' everything has gotten in criticism, focused on 'explainers' rather than critique per se. Yeah, there's been moments I liked, like Ghost and Thormund going off to live beyond the wall, but on the whole, this has just been abysmally bad, a complete collapse, a failure on every level. Every battle has been idiotic, but for a few moments, which then hasn't been followed up on. All the characters are behaving nonsensically, and the resolutions to the long running plots, which might have made sense on some level, has been handled awfully. It's just a 0/10, like the end of Dexter, or How I Met Your Mother.

BSG and Lost are different. That's really weird and complex narratives that strained under too many mysteries. But GoT got rid of everything mysterious a while back, and they've just failed because nothing made sense anyway.

When was How I Met Your Mother good?

But it was supposed to become good when they met the mother!

I'm just an armchair observer at this point, but so much of GoT seemed to be about portent and prophecies and the like that it was able to kind of skimp on character development. That is, when the character is defined by what he or she is going to do, you don't need to know much else. Why does Jon Snow come back from the dead? Because he has to do the thing. Why does it have to be him to do the thing? Because the Gods favor him. Or something. But then you get rid of all the magic stuff and reach the end and there's no more time for prophecies, just the people, but the people largely remain ciphers, which makes the magic stuff seem in retrospect all the more superfluous, devices in service of not much.

BSG, its problem was sort of the opposite. It was very much about characters and people and their relationships in a stressful situation, but then it increasingly became about prophecies. But what made even its ending tolerable were the characters, which we had grown to like and know.

the show has had plenty of well-realized characters but as the show has gone along the nuance and character-based plotting has been replaced by spectacle and shocks, both of which can work on their own as entertainment but they wind up feeling emptier. The Lannisters were all vv interesting up to a point, Ned was cool, Catelyn was imo a phenomenal character elevated by the best performance in the series, Daenerys was actually fine for awhile and her ultimate character denouement is great except for the fact that they didn't want to do the hard work of making it believable.

It's not what it could have been but the show remains on its present terms entertaining but the disappointment stemming from what it once was makes it seem even worse than it probably is.

But then you get rid of all the magic stuff and reach the end and there's no more time for prophecies, just the people, but the people largely remain ciphers, which makes the magic stuff seem in retrospect all the more superfluous, devices in service of not much.

BSG, its problem was sort of the opposite. It was very much about characters and people and their relationships in a stressful situation, but then it increasingly became about prophecies. But what made even its ending tolerable were the characters, which we had grown to like and know.

Actually, the problems were similar -- in both shows you have characters with varying levels of development and likeability, and then the shows do weird flips where many of the characters seem/feel inconsistent. I feel like Game of Thrones is actually more consistent in terms of characters seeming credible than in BSG. Like, compare Dany to Starbuck ... and it makes Game of Thrones look better.

Also the only bits of memorable dialogue left seem to be direct book lifts (Tormund's story) or restatements of earlier dialogue.

Probably closer to the Wire - underwhelming but fine.

― Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, May 19, 2019 9:18 AM (two hours ago)

Yeah, I think you're right, with similar flaws to the last season of The Wire.

I can't think of any character betrayals in s5 of The Wire anywhere near as egregious as, say, Jaime. Not even close.

I don't see Jaime's "arc" as being a betrayal at all? It definitely seems more consistent than Lester signing on to the serial killer plot

maybe it "betrays" a viewer's desire for consistency? For redemption? For a fictional character to be more heroic or a better person than the average human being? But when faced with the potential death/humiliation of the woman he loved for most of his life, and the option to do nothing vs. try to "save her"? This makes total sense to me.

like a "betrayal" for Jaime's character would be like him saying, "Hey, I think I'm gonna go find that guy Hot Pie and help him with his tavern! I do like a good meal."

to an extent it actually seems to fit in a bit with what happens w/a lot of cable drama dude antiheroes albeit in a more heightened theatrical fantasy way: they try to change and become better people and fail.

ha it's a total "trope" ... also the dude alienated from his ex, rushing back to save her ...

family being your downfall, not an uncommon thing in these stories. hmm

Jaime AND Cersei endings would have both been way better if she had up her sleeve a plan to use wildfire to destroy her invaders at the expense of her own people. Jaime shows up, she ends up telling him this before she goes through with it. Yadda yadda yadda, Jaime is forced to kill her for the same reason he killed the mad king. Lives up to his name, lives up to his redemption story, is the ultimate end to his struggle with himself and his relationship with his sister etc. Very painful for him. Heartfelt scene of her dying in his arms and all the conflicting feelings. Her having had any sort of sneaky plan is consistent with her character and her ruthlessness, she used wildfire before and will do it again, the people of KL hate her anyway (and her them). Would have made sense.

Meanwhile Dany goes ahead and destroys the city with her OWN fire. Oh the irony! Jaime looks on from the tower in horror. He believed, though however horribly painful it was for him to do, so much more so to do this time around, that he did the right thing and saved his people yet again. But nope, Dany is burning them all. Crushed, he jumps out the same window that Tommen did with a similar scene of destruction happening in the distance.

TBH most of the people most vocally hating on the last episode are so annoying it actually makes me want to defend it on principle.

Although I did kind of want Jaime to kill Cersei and Dany to lose her shit and be dealt with, I'm a little perplexed by the enthusiasm some viewers have for these kind of endings because they seem a bit too obvious and maybe only interesting if there are good enough additional aspects or moving close to the trope but then sidestepping it. Cant really be bothered with simple "oh dear, killed by their own flaws" or "oh dear, they can never change" endings.

My my, their Flaws proved to be their undoing! How clever!

Jamie killing Cersei wouldnt make sense to me at all.

I could maybe see him killing her because he would prefer that to her inevitable execution or killing by someone else?

Or accidentally killing her.

Although I did kind of want Jaime to kill Cersei and Dany to lose her shit and be dealt with, I'm a little perplexed by the enthusiasm some viewers have for these kind of endings because they seem a bit too obvious and maybe only interesting if there are good enough additional aspects or moving close to the trope but then sidestepping it. Cant really be bothered with simple "oh dear, killed by their own flaws" or "oh dear, they can never change" endings.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, May 19, 2019 4:19 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Would have been obvious yes but at least more of a compelling ending for both characters? imo

I don't have much preference for Jaime's ending, only that the handling should be good and not too simple.

HBO releasing the Game of Thrones finale

pic.twitter.com/nAhMzE3StX

— KFC Radio (@KFCradio) May 17, 2019

I think Tyrion just explained to Jon that Danerys is the United States

Shit, I forgot Brutus from Rome was even in this and looking old as hell.

they said the title are you kidding me

Honestly that was mostly fine

Weird beat between the shanking and the council but other than that not objectionable.

Was expecting much worse tbqh

Considering where they brought the story to at this point.

Alright they landed the plane, but why did we need to fuck so many things to get here

I feel some sense of catharsis so I’m going to cautiously say we’ve got at least a partial success

Bran’s a very calming presence

As Ramsay said, “if you were expecting a happy ending...you’ve been paying attention quite well, actually. Good on you for paying attention!”

I mean, it’s a bittersweet beginning after a wretched ending for the people of westeros

Spoilers:

The part where Drogon burned the throne! Who knew dragons were so literal?

Ha ha ha ha aha aha! I had to legit stifle laughter through this entire episode. What trash!

This made the Ewok dance party at the end of Return of the Jedi look like Citizen Kane.

I have a confession to make.

As soon as jon and Dany kissed, I picked up my phone and completely stopped watching my tv. I had completely given up on the show and didn’t care anymore

And then I looked back and Dany was dead on her back with blood out her mouth and nose and I was like, what the fuck is going on.

I rewound twice, not going far enough back to see Jon make the move with his dagger. It was the third rewind that I went far enough back to see what happened.

what the hell was that

trash? we got zero titty shots in this one! not true game of thrones. they even shot down bronn’s (hail to bronn) sensible brothel request. reshoot it all!

we did all this to basically hold a student council election

Thought it was weird that when Sansa was like "we're gonna be independent, deuces!" not a single other House was like "oh, yeah, us too, this seven kingdoms thing is pretty new."

we did all this to basically hold a student council election

Lol, for real.

your student councils were surprisingly boring/non-Election-ish

overblown and underwhelming
at the end my gal said well at least you don't have to watch it anymore and that's when i realized that I HAVE FINALLY WON THE GAME OF THRONES

ahaha

Transition from drogon flying away with dead dany to the council meeting was the visual equivalent of saying “yadda yadda yadda”

TYRION: People love stories. And no one has a better story than Bran

ARYA, WHO LEARNED SHAPE-SHIFTING AND MURDERED THE INVINCIBLE ICE KING OF DEATH: Bran has what now

— Jason O. Gilbert (@gilbertjasono) May 20, 2019

as the dragon flew off with dany's body, this was really the only thing i could think of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK9Z43bXbXQ