FUCK EDITORS

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tracer: yup!

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 17:53 (twenty years ago) link

An editor once inserted the phrase, "But who cares, 'cuz it rocks!" at then end of a Korn review I wrote.

Sam J. (samjeff), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 17:53 (twenty years ago) link

(at THE end, of course. [...who cares, 'cuz that post rocked!])

Sam J. (samjeff), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 17:55 (twenty years ago) link

An editor once inserted the phrase, "But who cares, 'cuz it rocks!" at the end of a Korn review I wrote.

Whoa. Was it a negative review?

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 17:59 (twenty years ago) link

I hesitate linking the other review cuz it was really fuckt with, it's a bit old hat for ilx, and it might stir up a nest of corny indie fuxxx (which is the point - this is for an alt-weakly in athens, where hipster record stores pride themselves on not stocking rap - but outta that context and into this I hesitate). (not hard to find following that other link though).

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 18:00 (twenty years ago) link

If I remember, I was trying to make the slightly complex point that even though the album would be pretty irritating to most ears, it would still please the kids who scrawl "Korn rocks!" in the AOL chat rooms (i.e., it was a success on the terms of the band and its fans). (This was before Korn got huge; they were still kind of a niche skater freak-rock band.) But all that got removed, in favor of "Who cares, 'cuz it rocks!"

The guy was a really poor editor.

Sam J. (samjeff), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 18:04 (twenty years ago) link

the review really does read like trife's flow has been fucked -- like standerd alt-write dropped inna middle of his bing-bam idea-rattle.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 18:06 (twenty years ago) link

trife you might wanna play the "listen you amateur fuck - I wrote for pitchfork! thas right - PITCHFORK!", it might work (in athens)

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 18:11 (twenty years ago) link

Most editors here tell you what changes they want and let you get on with making them, so at least you learn how to do it. It's assumed that you will develop the skill of editing yourself as you go along.

I am very, very lucky in that 1) 95 per cent of the time, my first draft is what runs and 2) I'm rarely at odds with editors because of anything I write, or changes they want me to make. But British magazines are a bit more free-rein than American ones as a whole and it would be interesting to have to deal with one of those Vogue by jury rewrites.

(BTW if Matos shows up to collect his props my friend C rang tonight and says yes you do know her you were hanging a bit at Mpls lifter puller shows and sends props as well)

suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 19:05 (twenty years ago) link

"trife you might wanna play the "listen you amateur fuck - I wrote for pitchfork! thas right - PITCHFORK!", it might work (in athens)"
that prompted me to go to pitchfork and check out your reviews trife. and i must say, i shed tears of laughter at your eminem review. thanks.

Felcher (Felcher), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 19:10 (twenty years ago) link

(thanks Suzy, tell her hi as well.)

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 22:07 (twenty years ago) link

the review looks fine and quite ethanish, you can't always get what you want, live and learn etc.

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 22:08 (twenty years ago) link

I have found Maerz to be very helpful and constructive (and I should start pitching stuff to her again, dammit), and Matos has been great so far (though I do sort of wish he'd noticed how many bloody times I used the word 'electro' in a recent DJ Shadow review). I figure you're in pretty good shape if the worst problem you have is "they can't always find space".

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 22:48 (twenty years ago) link

new complaint, fresh today. My lead was for shit: "Like his music, So-And-So's current tour reflects a can-do, roll-with-the-punches attidute just like his music."
Okay, I cop to shitty not paying attention, but at least TWO other sets of eyes went over my piece before it hit the page. Fuck fuck fuck. I mean, it's my screw-up, but at least ONE of them should have caught it.
Maybe I've come to rely too much on editors, or maybe they've just come to assume (based on my all-around brilliance) that everything I do is perfect and don't bother with my copy when there are other writers who do need more of what one of my eds calls "massaging."
Anyway, boo to all three of us for being lazy.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 17 July 2003 14:40 (twenty years ago) link

B-b-but Horace, you still wrote 'can-do, roll-with the punches' and nobody did anything about that, either ;).

suzy (suzy), Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:09 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah, but I was being jocular there.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:13 (twenty years ago) link

I'm still embarrassed about calling Wake Up on Fire (local B-more crust-metal band) "firey" in a review. Somehow that one got in.

Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:42 (twenty years ago) link

That said, Bret McCabe (B-more City Paper) is a really decent editor. But none of youse should write for him because I'm from Baltimore and you're (probably) not. It bothers me when I lose writing jobs to freelancers from other cities, and it's what's kept me from looking for work at alt-weeklies in other cities. Is there any sort of etiquette on this? Does everyone else write for papers in other cities? (I haven't been doing it for very long; this sort of thing is probably common knowledge, but humor me.)

Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:46 (twenty years ago) link

I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:47 (twenty years ago) link

Seriously tho, I think that sucks too. Weeklies, you'd think, would have an imperative to be as local as possible.
I don't know. The worst thing is when they hire an out-of-towner and he/she blows, but is a friend of the ed or something. This happened.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:49 (twenty years ago) link

I don't know, Tom, but I was pretty pissed when I briefly worked with my local free weekly (before they went bankrupt) and I said something about how their shitty music column wasn't that great and how I thought it was weird that it never talked about local music, and they said, "Oh, we buy that out of syndication. He lives in like Portland or somewhere," which meant that they were actually PAYING someone to write about boring shit like Grandaddy when I would have done a 200% better job and talked about local music too FOR FREE. I would have brought that up eventually, but like I said, they went bankrupt a couple of months after I started working there.

NA. (Nick A.), Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:51 (twenty years ago) link

I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:03 (twenty years ago) link

I'd also like to throw a "Yay" at Keith Harris. That is all.

(apologies in advance, but...)

You mean this guy?

http://www.henderson-management.co.uk/img3.jpg

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:07 (twenty years ago) link

WHO? PETE TOWNSEND??

joan vich (joan vich), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:11 (twenty years ago) link

What is that?! Needless to say, I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

Speaking of local music...there just isn't enough coverage of fringe local bands in weeklies. One of the reasons I love City Pages, btw!

I'm still not against approaching pubs out of town. We want to write, right? Pardon my corniness there...If you're in town, pitch more stories relating to your area.

Kate Silver (Kate Silver), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:14 (twenty years ago) link

if anything there's too much coverage of "fringe" local bands in free weeklies

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:18 (twenty years ago) link

oh god fuck them, the pricks.


Actually more than editors, fuck you, specifically to whoever the marketing clown who commissions me work is, I cancelled a night out last week to go and collect a fucking shite indie cd which I then listened to for some reason feeling miserable all the while, I then reviewed it and took a good 2 hours trying to not just pan it outright with ott invective, and then this week it's not been used in the fucking rag at all. And every time I propose a story, I think she thinks I am making up the artist or perhaps she's so used to dealing with the knobs that write for the mag that she thinks I'm just desperate to get joe man of the people soulful delights name in print. Yeah obviously there's no press interest in the Rapture or Dizzee Rascal. Of course not, I fucking saw Dizzee down the pub last night playing folk covers.

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH.

Christ.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:22 (twenty years ago) link

seriously does anyone else work for a publication where the people commissioning the stories know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about music?

I mean I swear she knows nothing, I'm not kidding, nothing! It's like trying to pitch a story about techno to my fucking grandma.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:24 (twenty years ago) link

You're not accidently proposing stories to the AARP newsletter again are you?

NA. (Nick A.), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:32 (twenty years ago) link

I don't see it in many. Where else will they receive coverage? It helps build their fan base. It annoys me when every pub runs a review of, say, the new Liz Phair or Steven Malkmus record.

Kate Silver (Kate Silver), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:43 (twenty years ago) link

I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!

I get to work under a guy who does it purely for the ego. "It's just a hobby," he says whenever I ask him to please be a little more professional or whatever. He actually tells publicists that I'm going to review something or interview someone before even telling me. And then he tells me I have a bad attitude if I say that I can't interview somebody on five minutes notice for the fifth time this month.

I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:49 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.americanatickets.com/tv/montel.gif
Neither am I.

Montel Williams (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 17 July 2003 18:00 (twenty years ago) link

actually, the right answer is:
http://www.lawandorder-fr.com/photos/svu/thumbs/belzer01.jpg

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 17 July 2003 18:02 (twenty years ago) link

try again, horace.

Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 17 July 2003 18:31 (twenty years ago) link

There's no point writing for free weeklies if you don't control the power relationship with the editor. The whole point of free weeklies is to give writers a free ride creatively (hence the "free" in "free weeklies", I thought?!?), because the editors can't provide a good incentive to make you stay if they fuck you over.

This is prob. why so much of the writing in free weeklies is pretty bad though... I mean, everyone but *us* needs editors, right?

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 19 July 2003 11:02 (twenty years ago) link

I'd like to be one but I'm not an organiser at all. I suspect this is the general problem.

Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 19 July 2003 11:05 (twenty years ago) link

So who does everyone write for, anyway? at least those publications you wish to mention...

Kate Silver (Kate Silver), Saturday, 19 July 2003 15:46 (twenty years ago) link

Mostly the All Music Guide but also Careless Talk Costs Lives, Fake Jazz and now, here and there, the Seattle Weekly -- also The Broken Face now that I think about it. Then there's Freaky Trigger, god bless it!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:07 (twenty years ago) link

two years pass...
There are writers who editors like, and those they’d bet their careers on. How can you be that writer who the editor will call on every time she needs an important assignment to be done? Are you a hot favorite or a pass-on-for-another-freelancer who keeps querying but receives no response? Here are the qualities that will endear you to an editor.

1. Giving more than you promise
When an editor asks for two samples, give her three. If she trusts you with an assignment, don’t wait for the final deadline, but send it in a day in advance. If she’s asked you to provide notes, make sure you give her everything she needs so that she doesn’t have to ask for anything more. If you make an editor’s job easier, she’ll love you for it. And she’ll be willing to trust you again with more assignments.

2. Constantly coming up with fresh slants
There may not be too many new topics (unless you’re writing about technology; then you just can’t complain), but there can always be new slants. An editor likes writers who can reduce her brainwork, and make her look good in front of her superiors by coming up consistently with great ideas.

3. Having all the answers
It’s important to know about your subject. That’s why so many well-paid writers advise you to specialize. So, if an editor calls you to discuss your query, and poses follow-up questions, you better have the answers. Because an editor’s never going to trust you with an assignment unless she’s sure you know what you’re doing. And not having answers to her questions is a sure-shot sign that you don’t.

4. Coming up with clever titles, and great sidebars
The most important thing I’ve learnt so far is to visualize your article. See how it appears on the page. Granted, it’s usually not going to come out like you’d imagined it, but for a minute forget that you’re a writer, and think like a designer. See the beautiful fonts and the shaded box on the side? That’s how the editor sees your article. Now it’s your job to bring that visual to life with your words.

5. Understanding the core audience of the magazine
If you’re writing for a magazine for home PC users, your editor’s not going to appreciate ideas on network security, however wonderful they may be. Similarly, when writing for a small business owner, you’d want to treat that person as a little smarter, even if he might have the same knowledge base as that of a home user. His computing decisions are more important. That’s why you should always be familiar with the reader’s knowledge level. That’ll help you make the distinction between good ideas, and great ones.

Mridu Khullar, Friday, 18 November 2005 15:30 (eighteen years ago) link

got that trife?

s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 18 November 2005 15:35 (eighteen years ago) link

#4 is especially OTM because it's so often overlooked.

As for this: "When an editor asks for two samples, give her three," I can't speak for editors at large, but don't do that for me. I've got enough to read without an extra sample. The extra one means you either couldn't make up your mind or you don't have any two that alone will sell your writing.

JC-L (JC-L), Friday, 18 November 2005 15:36 (eighteen years ago) link

haha i do have to say that there's no way i would have employed 2003-era trife

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 18 November 2005 15:40 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't think two samples is ever enough; how can you get an idea of writer's capable of with just two samples? Honestly, the more the better, up to a point (as long as they're not in some big expensive binder that's trying to impress me but, believe me, won't, especially when I take a few samples out then toss the binder.) I'm not gonna read them all, but I'll *skim* them. Two samples tells me very little.

Most of that advice makes pretty good sense, actually. (And I say that as somebody who, early on, used to get pissed when Spin editors changed commas to semicolons. Though later, they did stupider stuff.)

xhuxk, Friday, 18 November 2005 15:45 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know. That makes sense, but I also want someone who's going to be easy to work with. Someone whose not following pitch guidelines probably isn't going to follow submission guidelines and is probably going to bug me about changes and when it's running and all that. It's not like I'd get mad or reject someone out of hand for including extra samples, but I just don't think it's wise to start off by ignoring the request of the person you're hoping to work with.

Of course, maybe that's why I'm not a brilliant pitch-maker... :)

JC-L (JC-L), Friday, 18 November 2005 16:21 (eighteen years ago) link

In my experience, editors want 7-10 samples, I try to stick to that range.

Publications I write for:

Baltimore City Paper
Orlando Weekly
Grooves Magazine
Signal-to-Noise Magazine
Miami New Times
Pitch Weekly
Creative Loafing Atlanta
Staticmultimedia

I don’t think there’s any harm in non-local writers writing for alt-weeklies as long as they’re good; it’s important to cover ye olde local scene though. I remember back when the Baltimore City Paper didn’t do anywhere near as much of this as they do now – the volume of venom from local hipster musicians was incredible.

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 18 November 2005 16:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Well, I never tell anybody how many samples I'd want, either. I want to see how many *they* think they should send. If they ask me how many, I kind of consider that an initial mark against them, probably, to be honest. I mean, take the initiative for crissakes! Don't make me do your thinking for you! Right, I want writers who'll make my life easier. So if they ask, I say, "send however many will convince me I should assign you something," and leave it at that. And if they ask me how to pitch a story, I say "pitch in a way that will convince me I should assign it to you." Then it's up to them, as it should be.

xhuxk, Friday, 18 November 2005 16:52 (eighteen years ago) link

> the volume of venom from local hipster musicians was incredible.<

All the more reason NOT to do too much local coverage. (I mean, right, my job is to provide publicity for local hipster musicians.)

xhuxk, Friday, 18 November 2005 16:54 (eighteen years ago) link

I mean, we do review local bands plenty as part of the mix, and it would be wrong if we didn't. But scene boosterism for its own sake is the ultimate dud of all duds, and always has been, since forever.

xhuxk, Friday, 18 November 2005 17:18 (eighteen years ago) link

In my experience, editors want 7-10 samples

Eep. I'm learning something here.

I never give too specific of pitch guidelines either, so I'm not sure why it bugged me by the suggestion that you should give more samples than requested. I think I just don't like it that someone else assumes they know what I need. Although this thread is pointing out that maybe they do!

JC-L (JC-L), Friday, 18 November 2005 17:26 (eighteen years ago) link


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