HAIL, CAESAR! A '50s Hollywood comedy from Joel and Ethan Coen

i liked this movie and completely forgot it existed until now

huh?

xpost

You're saying he should've added "imo"?

Imos pizza sux IMO

nah mlud alf the imo is as always implicit

im saying that even iyo declaring that there are such tests that a movie must oerleap else fail is adding elements to appraisal that dont always (and need never) apply

I really like this one and think theres a lot going on in it, its current rep as a a piece of lightweight pastiche hugely underrates it imo. I think about it a lot as a companion piece to A Serious Man

yeah

and elements that are def of a piece with hudsucker, barton fink, inside lleywn davies, etc etc

the pastiche pieces are happening around a vv compelling central character/performance in brolin

tbh i think the level the coens are working on now, I dont think they could do a "just" pastiche movie at this point even if they tried

and elements that are def of a piece with hudsucker, barton fink, inside lleywn davies, etc etc

these are all lesser coens to me, especially the latter

brolin is good but there's not really a journey for the character

not every story is the odyssey

some are the iliad.

lol

heh

I'd find it interesting to read what in particular you find compelling about Brolin's character and the rest of the movie, deems. I could write more of my own opinions for you to hoot at, but that seems like a hollow exercise unless you are willing to expose yourself a bit further. I will take it as all in good fun, regardless. The Coens have to fine a body of work to be smirched by a few quibbles about this film or that.

I'm fine with a hollow exercise when every scene is uniquely memorable & enjoyable.

i think hes an excellent brooder, aimless

good brooding

portentous

adds a lot that mightn't even be there

#casting

anyways i wasnt hooting at all but i think a criticism of something for what it isnt should have to work hard enough to demonstrate that it had to be that thing, tbh

a certain finn was terrible for doing this, iirc

The fantasy version of Mannix is the most sharp and capable character in the film, who has no particular expertise but still outthinks or outmanouevres every other figure in their own area of interest. The headhunters can see this, and know that he's not being valued with direct appreciation, money or a work-life balance.

Eddie knows this too. The tragedy of the film's character is that despite operating outside of, and manipulating, Hollywood glamour at every step, he is just as seduced by it as everyone else. He probably thinks Catholicism is bullshit and an exploitative front, but he carries on in "belief" of it. He knows that Hollywood is fake - he's the main agent of the fakery off-screen - and yet he can't give up his faith, though it does not and will not reward his belief. He chooses to believe, and chooses to believe that he will be happy by choosing this.

Nearly every character is shown as a massive doofus both to contrast with Mannix' capability, and to provide entertaining, funny setpieces to the audience. Every other character that is capable in some way is also choosing to believe in something false, but they're not conflicted by it. Mannix is given opportunity after opportunity throughout the film to behave as rationally as he is shown to think, and a viewer may invest in his tension and conflict, or disregard it (whether because they expect he will stick with the studio, find the character repugnant, are in it for the gags, are put out of it by the gags, w/e). It's the emotional spine of the movie for those who want one, though.

He goes on a journey, it just ends up back at home in his hobbit-hole. The journey doesn't change him - this is the point of faith - but it brings him to accept things about himself.

(The real-life Mannix probably would have turned down a better-compensated job in aeroplane manufacturing because of the lesser opportunities to control & abuse women, or to have people murdered for convenience or spite.)

I agree about the quality brooding by Brolin.

criticism of something for what it isnt should have to work hard enough to demonstrate that it had to be that thing

Ah! I merely said that, given what it was not, what was left would either suffice for the viewer to extract enjoyment or it would not, with the clear implication that for me it did not. It struck me as a series of pleasant trifles, which is not a bad thing in itself. Scene by scene, most of the film was amusing and engaging. Not the commies, though; they were a mustard stain on the film's floral cravat.

Where it most failed for me was its insistence on imposing a plot and a resolution on the story, while employing such a weak plot and incoherent resolution that they detracted from the whole and made it, as Jim In Vancouver put it, a whole that was less than the sum of its parts. Also, for my tastes, Clooney's and Johansson's characters were rather simplistic cartoons that fell well below the high standards set by Warner Bros.

otoh, Brolin and Swinton were very fine and held the movie together as best they could.

sic otm. its a story about how people keep faith vs a serious man being about how people lose faith.

i agree about the commies, certainly, that needed deepening or dropping

mannix's faith in the system is held up by the idea that everyone has an important role to play to serve the system, and in return the system provides them all with a sense of meaning. His faith gives him self-worth because he plays his part to help keep the system running, as we all should. The setpieces give us a cross section of the system and show us what mannix finds beautiful about it, the way each person fits and how their role is important, from the execs to the craftspeople to the crooked notary public. The film shows him literally travelling around tending his flock, and when one of them has doubts he tells them that faith must be a choice, a conscious act of will, and if you interrogate it with rationality too much it can all disappear in a puff of smoke.

Great post, sic

xp - that deeper thematic underpinning might have been better served if it had been depicted as happening to human beings instead of to crayon drawings of human beings

well yeah, its a broad allegory, done with self-conscious silliness. Not sure if it would have worked better if it was more realistic, but i get why the movie as it is doesnt do it for everybody. And while its still not the deepest fare theres at least slightly more there to chew on than "they wanted to re-create old movies" imo

mannix has learned to be happy with the idea of faith being its own reward. gopnik in a serious man is unhappy because he expects rewards for his faith. (or at least tornado protection, at the bare minimum)

gopnik struggles with faith and doesn't do anything

mannix commits to faith-as-tactic and acts

that deeper thematic underpinning might have been better served if it had been depicted as happening to human beings instead of to crayon drawings of human beings

― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, May 16, 2020 7:09 AM (twenty-four minutes ago)

https://i.imgur.com/nlenMLq.jpg

I watched this over the pandemic and fell into the easy trap of tritely dismissing it as a minor Coen brothers. It didn't really stay with me and I hadn't reconsidered it until I noticed that their last three movies (if indeed the Coens stay out): Inside Llewyn Davis, Hail, Caesar!, The Ballad of Buster Scruggs form an ersatz trilogy of dark music(al) movies about identity, Americanism, and the culture industry. Maybe not a perfect match-up, but I think it's interesting to take all three of these movies together.

Wasn't excited for this at all, very wary of the pastiche/tribute element but I really loved it. I think the old man trying to fight the moon is supposed to be comedy for dumbasses but it's still hilarious.

Trying to think of similar films to what Fiennes was directing or similar directors but coming up totally blank. Maybe that kind of film is mostly left in the past? Same for the cowboy film?

saw The Man Who Wasn't there the other night and that was more amazing