No surprise that a sitcom from the 80s would be full of questionable material. I think we even discussed some of its hypocritical queer affirmation above, so no need to re-litigate that; the racial stuff works much the same way (pleas for tolerance on one hand, scoring easy punchlines on the other) but Sophia's many racist/homo- and trans-phobic zings are generally shown to be embarrassing to her daughter (yes, I know, the audience still gets to laugh).
Re: the rape--the show's notorious inconsistency complicates things a little bit, I think, in that we are given so many versions of Michael's conception that it is hard to take any one of them as definitive. In the case of "he must have slipped me something," I'm willing to read this variant on the story--which generally sets up a joke about Stan's lack of sexual prowess and/or Dorothy's insecurity--as a convenient set up to a punchline ("Apparently!"). More to the point, the kind of date rape scenario proposed in this scene likely would not have been uncommon mid-twentieth-century, and would have resulted in a young woman marrying her abuser and carrying around the "shame" of it (I once had a similar combination re: Biff's attempted rape of Lorraine in Back to the Future). If it is shitty of the series to make light of this, I'd argue that there is enough pathos in Dorothy's character (and Bea Arthur's performance) that the viewer isn't unconscious of it.
― A White, White Gay (cryptosicko), Thursday, 2 July 2020 23:41 (three years ago) link
i find contemporary culture full of questionable material
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Friday, 3 July 2020 01:03 (three years ago) link
Good calls, crypto. (Also, the series has tons of fat jokes and low blows about Dorothy's looks that are impossible to overlook. Still my favorite sitcom.)
― Get the point? Good, let's dance with nunchaku. (Eric H.), Friday, 3 July 2020 12:16 (three years ago) link
the series has tons of fat jokes
Have Oliver Hardy and Jackie Gleason been cancelled yet?
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 July 2020 13:03 (three years ago) link
Fatty Arbuckle sure was.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 16 July 2020 13:12 (three years ago) link
never found guilty in 3 trials
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 July 2020 13:14 (three years ago) link
A prince of a man, then.
― Get the point? Good, let's dance with nunchaku. (Eric H.), Thursday, 16 July 2020 13:42 (three years ago) link
But thanks for willfully overlooking the point.
― Get the point? Good, let's dance with nunchaku. (Eric H.), Thursday, 16 July 2020 13:48 (three years ago) link
Really good piece.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 16 July 2020 14:15 (three years ago) link
Saw a couple of episodes of this the other day and they were not very good. One of the storylines was about the possibility that Estelle Getty was not Bea Arthur's real mother and that's when I realized they're supposed to be Italian - the fear of having actual Jewish characters writ large.
― The Fields o' Fat Henry (Tom D.), Thursday, 16 July 2020 14:18 (three years ago) link
designing women is better anyway
― clouds, Thursday, 16 July 2020 14:21 (three years ago) link
You take that back!
― Get the point? Good, let's dance with nunchaku. (Eric H.), Thursday, 16 July 2020 14:23 (three years ago) link
XD
― clouds, Thursday, 16 July 2020 14:26 (three years ago) link
One of the storylines was about the possibility that Estelle Getty was not Bea Arthur's real mother
IIRC that's a later season episode. Even a lot of die-hard fans have their issues with the last couple seasons.
― Get the point? Good, let's dance with nunchaku. (Eric H.), Thursday, 16 July 2020 19:24 (three years ago) link
That episode sucks.
Some gems in the later seasons: I love the murder mystery weekend, Dorothy singing "What'll I Do," and Alan King as Mel Bushman. But yeah, it was definitely where the show's famously sloppy writing got even more ridiculous.
― A White, White Gay (cryptosicko), Thursday, 16 July 2020 19:29 (three years ago) link
On a GG recap podcast I used to listen to until I realized I couldn't stand one of the hosts anymore, one of their guests made the bold assertion that he preferred the later seasons for their "more flexible sense of reality." Which I took to mean, yes, sloppiness.
― Get the point? Good, let's dance with nunchaku. (Eric H.), Thursday, 16 July 2020 19:31 (three years ago) link
But yes, the "What'll I Do" ep is top 3.
That's the same reaction some fans have about the last couple Rosanne episodes
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 July 2020 19:34 (three years ago) link
Yes, but which series had more indefensible fat jokes?
― Get the point? Good, let's dance with nunchaku. (Eric H.), Thursday, 16 July 2020 19:45 (three years ago) link
The Cosby Show.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 July 2020 20:04 (three years ago) link
At the same time, Golden Girls had more punchlines about The Cosby Show than The Cosby Show had indefensible fat jokes.
― Get the point? Good, let's dance with nunchaku. (Eric H.), Thursday, 16 July 2020 20:13 (three years ago) link
I prefer the latter seasons of Seinfeld because of their more flexible sense of reality.
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Thursday, 16 July 2020 23:52 (three years ago) link
btw all silent film buffs now call Fatty Arbuckle "Roscoe" (as his colleagues did)
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Friday, 17 July 2020 01:16 (three years ago) link
I wish that more film buffs were silent.
― pplains, Friday, 17 July 2020 01:29 (three years ago) link
disappointed that a ctrl+f for "rattan" yields zero (0) results itt
― the burrito that defined a generation, Friday, 17 July 2020 01:44 (three years ago) link
we're all disappointed in life from time to time, but we find the hope to carry on.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Friday, 17 July 2020 02:43 (three years ago) link
Oh please, it’s wicker.
― A White, White Gay (cryptosicko), Friday, 17 July 2020 06:04 (three years ago) link
I saw a bumper sticker for “St. Olaf College”; took a pic and sent it to my wife, thinking it was a GG joke… she was like, “Yeah, that’s a real school.”
― unknown blues singer (morrisp), Sunday, 19 February 2023 01:18 (one year ago) link
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/14/theater/tituss-burgess-moulin-rouge.html
Those four ladies and the writers together made television magic. It’s like a fine wine: The jokes somehow are even funnier now, or I’m just getting older and maybe I understand the references a little more. On some level, every creator can reference it as a source of inspiration. For me, TV’s never been funnier.
― Dwigt Rortugal (Eric H.), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 15:27 (six months ago) link