Velvet Underground: Live 1969 vs. Grateful Dead: Live/Dead

yeah that's a good one, I also like the VU and Live 1969 versions, it's just such a great song. as usual with my VU preferences, the longer the better

The Loaded "Ocean" is fantastic and how the fuck did it not make the album and "Lonesome Cowboy Bill" did...

My copy of the The Quine Tapes is a promo – I think I wrote something up on it, but the reviews editor (B1lly Altm4n) gently declined to publish it (to his credit... I surely wasn't up to the task).

xxpost That "Ocean" in/"Cowboy" out change will be made on my Loaded: Baked Potato playlist.
xxxpost Yeah, sleeve's right: if you need one, you need 'em all.
Xgau agreed, said:

Bootleg Series: Volume 1: The Quine Tapes [Polydor, 2001]
I was cynical too, especially once I'd ascertained that the audio on these three discs was as faint as I'd feared. Played loud, though, the sound improves--not quite crisp or bright, but there. Note that this trick doesn't work with *Live at Max's Kansas City and ask yourself if you wouldn't maybe like to hear the number three band of the '60s, after the Beatles and James Brown and His Famous Flames, without wearing out its tiny catalogue. No new songs, true. But over the two hours that aren't devoted to three long, distinct versions of "Sister Ray," no title is repeated, even though every one was recorded in a one-month span in San Francisco in 1969. That's pretty impressive. As is all the new guitar. A-

*Also, when the Max's Kansas City set got more songs and remastered, he liked it better.

My copy of the The Quine Tapes is a promo – I think I wrote something up on it, but the reviews editor (B1lly Altm4n) gently declined to publish it (to his credit... I surely wasn't up to the task)
Aw. Was that Creem? Prob had regulars pitching it like whores jumping up for a blow of coke, as Bangs would say.

Nah, a “dot-com”…

I feel like “Ocean” doesn’t fit the vibe of Loaded, but that’s just me…

I still dislike the Live At Max's material, mostly because of Billy Yule's showboaty fills on the drums, which imho are antithetical to the band's essence

idk I guess it works better on Loaded b/c it doesn't bug me as much there

Think I'd make "Ocean" thee Loaded closer, for that late night 1970 FM stoner appeal (either that or make it next to last, right before the slow version of "Sweet Jane"? With the fast version still near the beginning of Side 1---which would start w "Satellite of Love," btw---"Who Loves The Sun" now a b-side only, waiting for CD- era collectormania)

I feel like “Ocean” doesn’t fit the vibe of Loaded, but that’s just me…

Not just you, it absolutely doesn't. And neither does the version of "Ride Into the Sun" recorded at the sessions, although that's better than about half the tracks on "Loaded" too. "Ocean" on Live 1969/Matrix Tapes is one of my favourite pieces of music ever.

live at Max's, esp the drumming is like them doing stand up of their own material. that beginning to see the light!!!

lol

Recently picked up the January 10th, 1969 and July 11th, 1969 Boston Tea Party shows (someone who is more well versed than I can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe both are part of the 'Professor Tapes'). The July performance is more fiery and frenetic, but the January is the better recorded. Either way, both great to hear and welcome additions to my VU collection.

^ also known as the "Legendary Guitar Amp tapes"

Just the July show is part of that, correct? The January show seems too clean to be recorded in the amp.

guitar amp tapes is a different show — march 15 1969, I think.

Thanks tyler, it's all so confusing. One of the entries at discogs shows the following recording dates for one of the "Legendary Guitar Amp Tapes" boots, which is why I was confused:

Tracks 1-1 to 2-1: Boston Tea Party, March 15, 1969
Tracks 2-2 and 2-4: Boston Tea Party, December 12, 1968
Track 2-3: Boston Tea Party, July 11, 1969

that boot contains bonus stuff on the second disc that IS from the professor tapes. Tyler is correct and I was wrong: these are the shows:

professor tapes
1968/12/12 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party
1969/01/10 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party
1969/03/13 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party
1969/07/11 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party
1969/08/02 Mason, NH - Hilltop Pop Festival

legendary guitar amp
1969/03/15 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party

Thanks! This is all such a muddled mess for someone just diving in a little deeper.

Another question, while we're on it, is the first night of the Cole Ave. shows really that much worse than the second night? Seeing a lot of commentary that there is a pretty stark difference between the two nights.

Has anyone mentioned Poor Richard's yet?

xp it's definitely lower-fi, but it's not awful or anything, the taper was just further back

xpost Poor Richard's? You mean these two tracks (Heroin & Venus In Furs with Cale on vocals) from the Exploding Plastic Inevitable film by Andy Warhol & Ronald Nameth, recorded at Poor Richard's Club, Chicago, Illinois 6/23/1966 ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBfnukdsmSs

xp - Thanks sleeve, I wasn't clear if the "worse" was referring to audio quality or playing performance. Dodgy sounding cavernous bootlegs don't exactly scare me off.

oohhh gotcha jon, no the performances are fine

that Hilltop show is great as well, and unique in that it is the only live boot of them at an outdoor festival where they could really crank it up

Wait, Nico and Lou weren't at the Poor Richards' gig. Oh, I see.

First Night at Cole Ave. is a really interesting document if you can get through the somewhat lo-fi sound (though it isn't that bad, just not nearly as good as the second night). Lots of mellow numbers with some cool Lou talk.

And if you're really jonesing, the remastered, expanded Live At Max's Kansas City is not too bad---I wouldn't buy it, but heard it a while back on either Spotify or YouTube.
Xgau:
3 Stars
***
THE VELVET UNDERGROUND
Live at Max's Kansas City (Deluxe Edition)
Atlantic/Rhino

A last-ditch product of 1972 becomes a you-are-there keepsake of 2004

Recorded in notorious lo-fi from the table of Andy Warhol hanger-on Brigid Polk in 1970, Lou Reed's last Velvets show until 1993 is one of the few collector's items to gain patina with the remastered, bonus-cutted, double-disc overkill of the CD era. Although the basic effect is still that of hearing a band from the back of a noisy bar, the audio is crisper and more forceful. Although original bassist/viola player John Cale and drummer Mo Tucker are gone, Reed does sing songs performed in their official studio versions by Nico and auxiliary member Doug Yule. And although Live 1969 remains the essential document, it is cool to hear Polk's buddies chatting obliviously about Richard Nixon and Tuinols as punk's forefathers go gamely into that good night.

Blender, Aug. 2004

auxiliary member---forgot about that tag---poor Doug!

there's yet another remastered version of Max's Kansas City on the Loaded/ReLoaded anniversary thing - (with 2 tracks missing so it could fit on one CD I guess: Who Loves The Sun & Sweet Jane (version2) )

which one has the great recording of I think I'm falling in love?

Live At the Gymnasium?

I don't know, I just wanted to be in the chat!

Background, according to Wiki:
The Velvet Underground signed a two-album deal with Atlantic in early 1970 and released their fourth studio album, Loaded, in November 1970. By the time of its release, singer/guitarist/main songwriter Lou Reed had left. The rest of the band stayed together, with bassist Doug Yule moving to vocals and guitar and Walter Powers being drafted in to play bass.

This line-up did a tour of the United States and Canada promoting Loaded. As the band still had a contract for another album, they wrote and played new songs eventually to be included on it. Atlantic had lost faith in the band's commercial prospects and, wanting to cut their losses after the disappointing chart showings of Loaded, decided to release an archive live recording instead.

The tapes that would later become Live at Max's Kansas City were recorded on August 23, 1970, by Andy Warhol associate Brigid Polk on a portable cassette recorder. While they were recording Loaded, the Velvet Underground held a nine-week engagement (June 24 – August 28, 1970) at New York City nightclub Max's Kansas City, playing two sets a night. Polk recorded almost everything happening around her at the time, and this happened to include her attendance of the last concert that Lou Reed played with the Velvet Underground. She recorded both the early and the late set. Later that year, Atlantic A&R employee Danny Fields heard the tapes and submitted them to his superiors, who accepted the recordings and in 1972 decided to make an album out of them. The line-up at the concerts consisted of Reed, Yule, lead guitarist Sterling Morrison and drummer Billy Yule, the younger brother of Doug Yule; regular drummer Maureen Tucker temporarily left the group several months earlier when she became pregnant with her first child, Kerry "Trucker" Tucker.

Originally, Live at Max's Kansas City was a single album distillation of both sets re-sequenced and edited by Lou Reed and Atlantic staff producer Geoff Haslam to reflect the band's loud and quiet sides, respectively. On August 3, 2004, Warner Music re-issue label Rhino Records released a two-CD Deluxe Edition that contains both sets in their entirety in their original running order. The songs were recorded on a mono recorder using a simple ferro musicassette in a small venue, resulting in tape hiss and an audience often drowning out the quieter bits of music.

Author Jim Carroll can be heard speaking on the album, ordering drinks and inquiring about drugs between songs as he was the one holding the microphone. Who was talking about Nixon?

Not seeing that one, plax---this is the double:
2004 reissue edition
All tracks written by Lou Reed except as indicated.

Disc one
No. Title Length
1. "I'm Waiting for the Man" 5:50
2. "White Light/White Heat" 6:07
3. "I'm Set Free" 5:33
4. "Sweet Jane" (Version 1) 6:18
5. "Lonesome Cowboy Bill" (Version 1) 4:41
6. "New Age" 6:44
7. "Beginning to See the Light" 5:40
Disc two
No. Title Length
8. "Who Loves the Sun" 2:17
9. "Sweet Jane" (Version 2) 5:58
10. "I'll Be Your Mirror" 3:02
11. "Pale Blue Eyes" 7:10
12. "Candy Says" 5:48
13. "Sunday Morning" (Reed, Cale) 3:48
14. "After Hours" 2:50
15. "Femme Fatale" 4:07
16. "Some Kinda Love" 11:22
17. "Lonesome Cowboy Bill" (Version 2) 5:00
18. "Atlantic release promo" (hidden track)

They also show the 2016:
2016 reissue edition
All tracks written by Lou Reed except as indicated.

No. Title Length
1. "I'm Waiting for the Man" 5:44
2. "White Light/White Heat" 5:15
3. "I'm Set Free" 6:27
4. "Sweet Jane" 6:17
5. "Lonesome Cowboy Bill" (Version 1) 4:20
6. "New Age" 6:38
7. "Beginning to See the Light" 5:42
8. "I'll Be Your Mirror" 3:27
9. "Pale Blue Eyes" 6:01
10. "Candy Says" 5:50
11. "Sunday Morning" (Reed, Cale) 3:39
12. "After Hours" 2:58
13. "Femme Fatale" 3:09
14. "Some Kinda Love" 11:03
15. "Lonesome Cowboy Bill" (Version 2) 4:17

Personnel
The Velvet Underground
Sterling Morrison – lead guitar, backing vocals
Lou Reed – vocals, rhythm guitar
Doug Yule – bass guitar, backing vocals, lead vocal on "Lonesome Cowboy Bill", "Who Loves the Sun", "I'll Be Your Mirror", "I'm Set Free", "Candy Says" and "New Age"
Billy Yule – drums, cowbell

The Gymnasium "Guess..." is also on Peel Slowly & See.

I also think they'd quite playing it live by '70.

I doubt they played it live after Cale left.