Let's talk about the new Streets album A GRAND DON'T COME FOR FREE.

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Caroline, no.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 13:30 (twenty years ago) link

The very end of What Is He Thinking? is astonishing, that big portentous ending going into Dry Your Eyes - its garage-opera.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 13:32 (twenty years ago) link

Sullivan's problem is more with the critics hyperbole than Skinner himself so I don't have a problem with her in this case - and I actually agree with her to an extent (first time I heard 'Fit But You Know It's chorus I was like 'uh....' but it is a grower - OMG GENIUS!)

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 13:32 (twenty years ago) link

On the basis of FBYKI, I might agree, but she's heard the whole album.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 13:38 (twenty years ago) link

Its the overarching plot that makes this album... if this had come out in February it might have killed me.

This needs to be released on DVD, with a video for every song.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:05 (twenty years ago) link

she is doing what all newspaper columnists do - filling space with half a thought padded out with poor justification. "I am irritated by this streets song" -> I will disagree with critical opinion. This is what makes newspaper columns such a waste of life.

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:11 (twenty years ago) link

But Petridish loved it of course, personally I'm too highbrow for this Mike Skinner chap.

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:13 (twenty years ago) link

This needs to be released on DVD, with a video for every song.
not sure I agree. Remember the video for 'The Irony of It All'? A pointlessly literal acting out of the lyrics. Skinner sketches out so much detail in his songs, you don't need to be force fed any images.

zebedee (zebedee), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:14 (twenty years ago) link

Skinner spent his Birmingham adolescence not in a tower block but in a comfy house

A comfy house, ha ha. He had too many throw cushions to be genuinely working class.

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:16 (twenty years ago) link

blimey John Sutherland goes on a bit! http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/fridayreview/story/0,12102,1205857,00.html he really needed to fill up a page even more.

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:20 (twenty years ago) link

Well at least "Denim On Ice" gets a namecheck

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:22 (twenty years ago) link

Re: Caroline

She seems somewhat confused about the class issues she does or does not have problems with. Mike Skinner despite his slightly less than humble upbringings is no 'middle-class guiltnik'. So she assesses his honesty? Well isn't that the point of and why we love the record? Its masterfully delivered narrative? We can easily dispense with the amount of fabrication in the record because it is story, urban opera, spoken word or whatever. But something grounded in urban reality.

How many authors throughout history have represented a class from which they do not belong? This album transcends class in many ways. If there is a mass consensus about its relative greatness in the media then that stems from its universal themes and just how genuinely affecting it is for many people. Oxbridge educated or not. I think Caroline is foolish to completely disregard the album context and seems to have more disregard for the streets than The Streets.

myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:23 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, but THE CHEMICAL BROTHERS??!

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:25 (twenty years ago) link

re DVD - is it not vivid enough? isn't that why you associate it so closely with images, because you can see the songs being played out visually?

myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:30 (twenty years ago) link

Couldn't be bothered reading all of the Caroline Sullivan piece - but enough to know what Mike Skinner is not the "middle class guiltnik", it's you lot who are.

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:32 (twenty years ago) link

uh zeb, that 'Irony Of It All' video is FANTASTIC precisely because it's a literal translation to screen!

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:34 (twenty years ago) link

"he lives in a house, very big house and it's comfy"

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:35 (twenty years ago) link

thats what she said and what i reiterated. but she's saying that skinner is closer to us 'middle class guiltniks' that 'the streets' which is supposed to be 'representing'.

myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:36 (twenty years ago) link

Mike Skinner never professes to be working class. He professes to being a 'bit of a geez'. There is a difference. Whatever class he is in I would probably be in the same (working-middle overlap), not that it means shit.

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:37 (twenty years ago) link

Hearing Get Out Of My House on daytime Radio 1 just now was pretty fucking fantastic.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:39 (twenty years ago) link

The end of Empty Cans, where it all turns round and builds up from that bitter opening, is the most moving thing I've heard all year.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:39 (twenty years ago) link

Yes, it is better than OPM.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:40 (twenty years ago) link

hang about! she think's that the GLC make merciless fun of skinner's so called 'life options'. you what? she fuckin' mental? we knows it.

myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:41 (twenty years ago) link

I still haven't really got into Empty Cans. It's funny. It's the one track where the contrivance seems to preclude repeat listenings for me.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:42 (twenty years ago) link

ha ha, i still think of Greater London Council first when I read that

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:43 (twenty years ago) link

Incidentally, whoever made the David Brent comparison with the 'femme fatale' section is a bastard! I can't get it out of my head.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:44 (twenty years ago) link

that made me chuckle stevem

myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:48 (twenty years ago) link

i emailed femme fatale asking her if she has heard the record and what she thought of the reference. no reply yet.

myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:49 (twenty years ago) link

Contrary to what Sutherliand writes, OPM did not win the Mercury. This one's probably a shoe-in...

JoB (JoB), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 15:19 (twenty years ago) link

oh it must be better then. hmph.

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 15:21 (twenty years ago) link

This sounds a wonderful album from a first listen. A step-up from the debut in that it doesn't have a superflous last track, and wow, the narrative is a brave conceit and well pulled off. Suggests how much more some artists ought to raise their game to create such 'novelistic' albums. :)

Tom May (Tom May), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 15:22 (twenty years ago) link

All things in moderation. God help us if pop music starts feeling the need to ape the novel to be worthwhile.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 15:31 (twenty years ago) link

Tales From Pornographic Oceans

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 15:38 (twenty years ago) link

ronan and i were talking yesterday about how much the ending of "empty cans" is - from a "sociological perspective" - a total downer, not too far off from "every man for himself" style paranoia in its own way.

I don't know that I'd call it "every man for himself" paranoia, though. If the final song represents two endings, I still consider the first to represent the kick in the head that he needed the entire album to realize what a fuck up he's been, both to his girlfriend (see track 5 for the explanation of their typical, comfortable and boring relationship) and to his friends re the money.
Considering everything that happens through the course of the album, it strikes me as more someone who knows they should have just buckled down and looked for the money, instead of immediately barking at their friends to figure out who is at fault. And I'm not sure that it's all every man for himself, cause the point with Scott and Dan is that Scott is just in the middle, and why should he sacrifice his friendship with Dan for Mike's sake. But the Mike in the album is a dick to everyone, not thinking about their motives, just feeling loads of self pity.
I'd say the second ending to Empty Cans is when he appears less paranoid, with a better perspective on the way things played out, and realizing he could have handled things far better than he did.

Having said all of this, I absolutely LOVE the album and the story.

Jonathan (Jonathan), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 16:20 (twenty years ago) link

I don't think it's as good as OPM and I don't think it will sustain as well (for me), either as a whole or as seperate songs.

I do think it's great / exceptional / marvellous etcetera in it's own right though.

I think the beat and the two different piano tracks make "Empty Cans" for me, and stop me having the same reservations about it as N does; the first part being foreboding and unavoidability, the second being a slowly unfurling sense of hope.

I think that maybe three or four tracks are, out of the context of the storyline, poor, or even very poor - "It Was Supposed To Be So Easy", "What Is He Thinking", "Such A Twat".

I think there are potentially quite a few singles though - "Not Addicted", "Dry Your Eyes", "Could Well Be In", "Wouldn't Have It Any Other Way". I think "Blinded By The Lights" is amazing, but not a single, likewise "Empty Cans".

I think his lyrics are good in the way that Mike Leigh scripts are good, which is a very different kind of good to the lyrics on OPM - fwiw I think i prefer the OPM take all in all, but there are certain bits of AGDCFF that are just astounding.

I think the more stripped production works very well in the context of what the album is, but I'm gutted that there's nothing really lush or banging or full. I listened to "Fit..." back to back with "Don't Mug Yourself" and "Fit..." sounded really weedy by comparison, likewise "Blinded By The Lights" and "Weak Become Heroes".

I hope this isn't the start of a narrative-album bandwagon.

I really want to hear what he's going to do next, and am slightly pissed that it's probably going to be two years until I do; the novelty of this almost makes it seem like a side-project. I hope he turns his gaze outwards slightly next, and also hits the dancefloor again.

I was waiting for someone (Caroline Sullivan is a perfect culprit) to decry Skinner for either being a class-tourist or else a misogynist. (I also think she's wrong re; it being the sound of vinyl spun backwards in "Empty Cans"; it sounds like a reel-to-reel tape to me, and the assertion that it must be vinyl posits it as a very masculine sound, all the connotations of audiophilia, collectorism, that anal 'record collector boy'/'comic store man' impotent, emotionally immature masculinity being a very cynical stick to shake at him - "silly little boys prefer records to women" etcetera etcetera).

I'm not sure it'll be a shoe-in for the Mercury - they can't have three ostensibly garage acts winning in a row, surely? Maybe Ivor Novello, given the narrative arc!

I don't live the lifestyle Skinner portrays at all, but there have been times when I almost have, and I've known plenty of other people who do.

Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 16:36 (twenty years ago) link

I was just saying that there are plenty of indiekids and regular straights who have no experience of the lifestyle Skinner depicts... It would be interesting to know if any of them would enjoy the Streets.

haha *cough*.

ok, it's not strictly true that I have 'no experience of the lifestyle Skinner depicts', I suppose.

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 16:38 (twenty years ago) link

That's no different to Emma's middle class 18-year old brother who lives in Dawlsish and has a magnificent sea view from his bedroom window being really into Mobb Deep, which he is.

Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 16:40 (twenty years ago) link

with you all the way NIck (tho Skinner lifestyle really just = playing Playstation, doing e's at clubs, a few bevvies and a kebab fwiw)

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 16:41 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah, that's all I meant, though the drugs bit is maybe kind of key.

I'm finding that if you get bored with re-hearing the story, it's quite easy to zone out of the threaded episodic lyrics and enjoy the music.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 16:47 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, I find that really easy since I never listen to lyrics anyway.

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 16:57 (twenty years ago) link

Why is it The Streets cause excitement/polarization in everyone except for me?

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 17:53 (twenty years ago) link

YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 17:54 (twenty years ago) link

THE ONE WHO WILL BRING BALANCE TO THE GEEZERSTHETICS

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 17:55 (twenty years ago) link

that birthmark on your ass was the giveaway

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 17:55 (twenty years ago) link

Why is it The Streets cause excitement/polarization in everyone except for me?

Sir, you're not alone (again).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 17:56 (twenty years ago) link

Cuz yer Yanks.

Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 18:01 (twenty years ago) link

Yes yes yes I know Jess & Matos and several thousand others disprove this.

Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 18:01 (twenty years ago) link

Not disprove that you're American, obv.

Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 18:01 (twenty years ago) link

DAMMIT I Wanted to be from Burkina Faso!

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 18:02 (twenty years ago) link

Q sells a reader a pup (from Amazon):

Reviewer: col from Cumbria, UK

This is absolutely shocking. First off I need to say I haven't heard the first Streets album, so this review is aimed at those similarly unfamiliar with this band/person/travesty.
Put simply - this is some of the most annoying music I have ever heard in my life. After a great write-up in Q magazine I was intrigued enough to give it a listen. OMG - It's like Ali G trying to get in touch with his sensitive side. Everything from the inane lyrics delivered in a 'Staines massive' accent to the teeth grindingly repetitive drum-beats made me want to break things.
Maybe I just don't 'get' this type of music, and I'm certain this album wasn't aimed at people with my particular tastes. Nevertheless, if this is urban music I'm pleased I live in the country.


N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 18:08 (twenty years ago) link


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