Is the West Experiencing a Right-Wing Drift?

I guess Macron’s likeable if you don’t care about Muslims or black people or the poor.

You won't convince me that pandering to racists and the far right really is a positive electorally.

It was fun how he tried to move the press room at the Elysee so journalists couldn’t see who came and went, surely not something that would ever backfire with fascists in power

But what's unfathomable to me is not seeing a difference between Trump and Macron

That's not what was said though.

I'm not French nor a close follower though.

The recently released video clips from 2022 of Macron talking to both Zelenskyy and Putin on the phone have such a weird uncanny valley feeling about them (Putins 'sorry bro I'm at the gym about to play hockey' line?). I feel like I'm being duped by a skit

You won't convince me that pandering to racists and the far right really is a positive electorally.

― man in suit and red tie raising his fist (Tom D.), Thursday, March 14, 2024 10:12 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Not "pandering", but hard disagree. If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years, it's that you cannot let them occupy the security and immigration terrain alone, because that's exactly where you can (and need) to contain their growth. We can discuss how to best manage it and nobody is saying the French immigration bill was the only option.

If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years

If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years

If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years

If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years

Here’s an idea: all the fascists’ ideas are bad, and you do not, in fact, need to hand it to them.

The far right have nothing to say on the subject of security that isn’t “persecute Muslims” and “restrict civil liberties”. Most of them take Russian money and hang out with people who are huge security risks.

The thing about is it strategic vs is it ideological is that it doesn't matter - playing with anti immigration sentiment still moves the overton window and the idea that you could then somehow keep things to acceptable levels (whatever those would be) is delusional.

The only acceptable level to the fascists is none and repatriation of people who’ve been there generations. Let’s just be honest about that.

Yes. Also pandering, and that is exactly the right word, hasn't worked and will never work.

hey if there's one thing the history of fascists in power has taught us it's that they definitely moderate their demands if you accommodate them a little

With the proviso of course that if you actually believe in these policies, it isn't pandering.

the "Is" in this thread title needs moving two places to the right, funnily enough

that's not very funny

Security and foreign policy have always been the go-to for easy gains in electoral points

Citation needed, this strategy appears to be a failure when it's tried. Even the glorious centrist revolutions in the west of the past decades (Blair, Clinton, 2017 Macron) were riding on an economic message first and foremost.

If you're a reactionary/racist voter and have the choice of a gleefully reactionary/racist candidate and a candidate that's open to a little bit of reaction/racism for a treat - what, exactly, is supposed to be the draw of the latter?

you won't convince me it's ideological.

Being open to a little strategic racism is itself ideological.

otm

I don’t think Nah, bozo will be responding, somehow.

Seriously doesn’t matter whether those enacting racist policy do so out of conviction or cynicism, but also the whole “I know they don’t believe it in their secret heart of hearts” bit is — at best — naive credulity masquerading as realpolitik. At worst, well.

Reading this thread with Gustavo Petro's quote from last year on the back of my mind: "Many in Europe have already welcomed Hitler into their homes", something like that

The West has been experiencing a right wing drift since about 1979.